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<DIV><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=#000000 size=2 face=Arial>From: Micha Berger <A href="mailto:micha@aishdas.org">micha@aishdas.org</A><BR></FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=#000000 size=2 face=Arial>>> They have pain -- it's a stimulus<BR>meaning something is
off and ought to be avoided. But without knowing<BR>they are in pain, do they
experience suffering?<BR><BR>I'm arguing no, and further, that this lack of
possible experience of<BR>suffering is reflected in the dinim of tzaar baalei
chayim, as well as<BR>in the prohibition of a chazan saying "al kan tzipor
yagi'u Rachamekha." <<<BR><BR>Tir'u baTov!<BR>-Micha<BR><BR>--
<BR>Micha
Berger
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<DIV>>>>>></DIV>
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<DIV>Animals do suffer. It is a cruel person who deliberately causes pain
to an animal for no good reason, or for fun. We will just have to agree to
disagree about this.</DIV>
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<DIV>Our literature, our tefillos and so on, are full of references to Hashem's
chessed and goodness to all His creatures. According to you, animals
don't need it because a cat is no more sentient than a stalk of celery. I
can't even understand your point, it seems so bizarre and so self-evidently
wrong to me. So animals cannot possibly suffer? Well, in the
words of the Church Lady on the old Saturday Night Live, "Isn't that
conVEEEENient!" You can do what you like. Test toxic products on
animals' eyes, cut up live animals for surgical practice and don't waste money
on anesthesia. I don't even believe you believe what you wrote. And
I know you are far from a cruel person.</DIV>
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<DIV><FONT lang=0 color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PTSIZE="10"><B>--Toby Katz<BR>==========<BR><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0 color=#000000 size=2 face=Arial FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PTSIZE="10"></B>--------------------</FONT></DIV></DIV>
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