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<TITLE>RYBS on minui hakahal</TITLE>
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<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">RI</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">T</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas"> writes</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">:</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"></SPAN></P>
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<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">>4) When drawing a distinction between converts and women, the article</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">>notes that women all prohibited from serving in the capacity of minui</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">>kahal - "community wide appointments" and from being entrusted with</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">>serara - "discretionary authority," whereas converts are barred only</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">>from serara. If that is the case, how is it that women are permitted</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">>to serve in any of the positions mentioned above in, since those are</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">>indeed communal positions and were only permitted to her by the Rav</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">>because they lacked serara. Somewhere, the definition of serara and</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">the</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">>Rav's distinction within the Rambam between serara and minui kahal is</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">>not completely clear.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"></SPAN></P>
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<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">And RAF responds</FONT></SPAN></P>
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<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">Please read my article again and the Rav's shiur [or R. Gil Student's</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">translation]. The Rav clearly distinguishes between "community wide</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">appointments" and Serara. He is forced into this because women are</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">precluded from serving as communal dayanim, yet the Gemara indicates</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">that a Ger can sit on a bet din to judge gerim. Hence a ger is not</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">assur from minui kahal per se - only one of serara. According to the</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">Rav, minui kahal or serara is assur for women; only minui kahal of</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">serara is assur for gerim.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"></SPAN></P>
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<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">I am not sure how it is that RYBS is</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">“</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">forced into this</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">”</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">–</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas"> or indeed how he derives it at all.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">As far as I am aware,</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">the</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas"> generally accepted reason for women to be prohibited from being dayanim (except, perhaps, in a kabala type situation where a karov or a posul can also sit) is based on</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">Mishna Nida</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">6:4</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">“</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">all who are kosher to judge are kosher to give testimony</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">”</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">–</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas"> ie the prohibition on women being dayim is based on the prohibition on eidus.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas"> See also Tosphos Nida 50a</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">, Shavuos 29b</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas"> and a whole string of rishonim on Shavuos 30a (The Rashba,</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">the</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas"> Ramban etc) all of whom cites this Mishna</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">(and an explicit Yerushalmi)</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">as the basis for women</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">’</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">s exemption from dayanus.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">As a consequence a</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas"> convert, who can give eidus, can therefore judge other geirim</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">, the only issue there becomes one of serarah.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">Eidus</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">however</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">has nothing to do with minui kahal</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">An eid does not hold a communal position.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas"> So it would seem that RYBS, in positing this distinction, is arguing with all of these rishonim</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">as to</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">the basi</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">s of women</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">’</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">s psul for dayanus. But based on what? While these rishonim have a Mishna</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">and a Yerushalmi</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">to base themselves on</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">, where is RYBS getting this distinction from? </FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">Where is even the concept of minui kahal coming from?</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">The</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">“</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">proof</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">”</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas"> brought in RGS</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">’</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">s translation is about an alternative explanation in the Kol Bo to that brought by</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">the</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas"> Beis Yosef. Ie RYBS has to disagree with</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">the</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">Beis Yosef</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">’</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">s explanation in the Kol Bo in order to postulate this distinction and get to his conclusion that this is what the Kol Bo really meant. But there is nothing in this translation that gives any hint as to where, in the Torah or the Talmud or even</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">the</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas"> Rambam</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">this concept of minui kahal, distinct from serarah,</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas"> i</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">s derived. At least for serarah, there is a Sifri and and Rambam, but as</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">acknowledge</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">d, to the extent serarah applies, it applies as much to a convert as to a woman. </FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">Where this extension comes from, I rather struggle to see.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"></SPAN></P>
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<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">Dr. Aryeh A. Frimer</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"></SPAN></P>
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<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">Regards</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">Chana</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"></SPAN></P>
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