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<TITLE>Herod and Shlomozion</TITLE>
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<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">Ira Tick</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> </SPAN><A HREF="mailto:itick1986@gmail.com"><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><U><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" FACE="Consolas">itick1986@gmail.com</FONT></U></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"></SPAN></A><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas"> summarising and questioning the position of RYBS as set out by RAF</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">>5) The other distinction made between gerim and women was based on the</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">>Netziv, who proved from the acceptance of Herod as a Jewish monarch</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">>that a ger may serve with serara if the need arrises--his convert</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">>status does not invalidate his position. This idea is interesting,</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">>though no actual reason was given as to why that distinction should</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">>be made. The real problem though is the proof in its support.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> </SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">And RAF responded:</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">Herod had a lot of bad traits, Josephus is full of his blood thirsty</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">escapades. Of course Haza"l didn't like him. But all that is is</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">irrelevant to the question of whether his kingship was halakhically</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">valid, and the Netsiv says "Yes." Look at the Netsiv for yourself.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">The Hasmoneans should not have taken the kingship, certainly not</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">permanently. But it did not make them invalid Kings. If you revolted</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">against them you were mored be-malkhut. Ahav was king of Israel, yet</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">Eliyahu haNavi ran before his Chariot out of Kavod!!! You may be</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">inappropriate yet valid.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">Just to note that Rav Hertzog used precisely</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">the</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas"> same</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">argument</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">from Shlomozion to say that this proves that a woman can validly be a queen where necessary.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">If you have a look at his section on sererah b</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">’</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">isha in his book techuka l</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">’</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">yisrael al pi hahalacha (Mosad H</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">arav Kook edition printed 1989) p102, second paragraph headed</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">“</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">Shlomo</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">zion hamalka</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">”</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">. He points out that nowhere in</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">the</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas"> Talmud is there any questions raised as the psul of a woman to be queen vis a vis Shlomozion, and he contrasts this with</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">the</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">situation with Herod (Baba Batra 3b) and Agrippa (Sotah 41a)</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">where</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">it was</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">state</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">d</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas"> that</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas"> that they</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">were</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas"> posel</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">. He suggests that since they did not bring this Sifri</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">(ie melech v</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">’</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">lo malka)</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">vis a vis Shlomozion,</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">one can derive from this</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas"> that Chazal believe</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">d</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas"> it was an asmachta b</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">’</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">alma</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">. He does</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">question</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas"> why at least they did not raise it and clarify it as an asmachta</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">b</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">’</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">alma</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">and perhaps suggest it was a drabbanan. </FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">His answer to this is</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas"> that perhaps</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">this</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas"> was because of the honour of that tzadeke</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">s</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">(ie Shlomozion)</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">that they did not recall the matter at all, since according to their opinion there was no issur m</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">’</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">tzad hadin.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">[</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">And of course</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">, I might add,</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas"> if Chazal had said something, there is a fair chance</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas"> that</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">, unlike Herod, Shlomozion</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">might</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas"> have listened.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">]</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">That is, Rav Hertzog was clearly of the view, contra</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">the</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas"> Netziv, that Herod was indeed posul as a king. But the logic of his</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">writing</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas"> is that if you</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">were to</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">hold</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">like the Netziv</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">that indeed Herod was valid, then</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">as a kal v</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">’</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">chomer</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas"> so was Shlomozion. </FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"> <FONT FACE="Consolas">That is, i</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">f you hold that Herod was a valid king even though he should not have been appointed, then it would seem from this that ka</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">l v</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">’</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">chomer so was Shlomozion.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">I will try and discuss other aspects of RYBS</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">’</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">s position</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas"> as brought by RAF in some later posts.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">Regards</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT FACE="Consolas">Chana</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"></SPAN></P>
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