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<DIV><FONT face=Calibri>RMB wrote:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 10:48:41PM -0500, hankman wrote:<BR>: Yes,
(advanced/ultimate) science is (somehow) embedded in Torah, but too<BR>: deeply
to be uncovered by mortals (cf. chukim) and thus unreasonable to<BR>: expect
Chazal to have advanced scientific knowledge based on their prowess<BR>: in
limud Torah...<BR><BR>That's a stronger statement than the one I made.<BR><BR>I
just said that the quotes "histaqeil beOraisa uvarei alma" et al speak<BR>of
what Hashem did, not what people are capable of. Therefore, it leaves<BR>open
the possibility that while nature was made to fit the Torah, people<BR>can't
necessarily see how.<BR><BR>I did not assert that's what the sources themselves
say.<BR><BR>IOW, I just dismissed them as proofs; I didn't give any arguments
one<BR>way or the other about Chazal knowing science. I think the
discussions<BR>of the sun going behind the raqi'ah are sufficient for that. The
fact<BR>that Chazal still spoke that way, even after Ptolmey -- albeit not
when<BR>Ptolmeic theory was popular -- makes the point irrefutably.<BR><BR>Tir'u
baTov!<BR>-Micha<BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri>CM responds:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri>Actually, I am with you here, I did not intend my last
post to sound as definite as it did either. I merely meant it as a possibility.
I had previously posted in this thread that I was not staking out a position,
just probing in attempt to clarify. In fact I am not as definite about it (the
other side of the coin) as you either and not sure that it is
"irrefutable." Those who would deflect your latter argument would say that
Chazal where not speaking of the material world but in code about the spiritual
world.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri>Kol Tuv</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri>Chaim Manaster</FONT></DIV>
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