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<DIV><FONT face=Calibri>R'n TK wrote:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>Another argument could also be made, viz., that anything that
is<BR>demonstrably true -- e.g, the laws of physics that enable planes to
fly,<BR>or laws of biology that enable farmers to grow better crops and
improve<BR>their livestock -- is intrinsically part of Torah, that everything
in<BR>the natural world was created by Hashem and therefore is part of
Torah,<BR>"Histakel be'Oraisa ubara alma."<BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri>CM writes:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri>I have speculated along similar lines and in addition to
</FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman">"Histakel be'Oraisa ubara alma" that you
quoted I also considered the Rashi on "behiborom" - "behaiborom" where he
brings the pasuk b'yud'hai Hashem zur olomim, so that the sodos (and its natural
laws of math, physics, chem, bio etc) of this bria are "somehow"
found in the os hai, but obviously buried very deeply so only gedolei olam can
deduce them via limud Torah. But I would then remain with the problem of why
there is not any evidence of advanced math (I do not mean merely the value
of Pi or the square root of two, but Calculus, Diff Eq., Diff Geom., etc. etc.)
or physics (Newton, Maxwell, Relativity, Quantum Mechanics, particle
physics etc), chemistry ( post Mendeleev based on subatomic, atomic and
molecular structure and energy concepts etc), biology (at a sub cellular
and biochemical level) etc in any of divrei Chazal that I am aware of. Why was
there not more invention (as we have today) for toeles (to lighten
the burden on people and leave more time for limud torah) if they were in fact
able to derive the natural laws from the sodos of Torah. Do not trot out the Gra
or the CI of our era who were post Newton and the scientific
awakening (and whose scientific and mathematical writing was fairly
restricted) etc. I am talking about two or three millennia ago when we had
neviim and Chazal who without a doubt had as clear an understanding of sodos in
Torah as any living person will have. We should have had in reality what
was fabled in legends about the scientifically advanced
Atlantis.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri>I could only imagine that for some reason these notions
were known to chazal and deduced from their limud of Torah but not revealed
since they were considered as being "sodos" of Maaseh Beraishis.
However, I could not understand why? If Newton, Maxwell, Einstein,
Watson & Crick et al. could reveal them why not Chazal? The only
alternative to this is that Chazal did not have any better scientific knowledge
than the rest of the world around them, but this is rejected by the chareidi
world. So all I have are questions but no satisfying answers. (Or perhaps flesh
out the Zohar mentioned previously in this thread, explaining WHY only
after 5600??).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri>Enter Slifkin .... but we all know how that
went....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri>Kol Tuv</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri>Chaim Manaster</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Calibri></FONT> </DIV>
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