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<DIV><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>From: rabbirichwolpoe@gmail.com<BR><BR>>> OK we have
identified<BR>Two opposing Positions<BR><BR>Chareidi: <BR>If society does it, it
is or probably is "treif."<BR><BR>Liberal or M.O.<BR>Thanksgiving is Kosher and
let's embrace it.<BR><BR>Question:<BR>How would R SR Hirsch have viewed
it? <BR>Personally I'm guessing that his relationship with secular
culture<BR>was selective and that he would embrace anything inspiring,
positive,<BR>or uplifting as long there was no specific Halachic
barrier.<BR><BR>I was wondering What do the "Hirschians" on Avodah
think?<BR></FONT></DIV><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial
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<DIV>I think it is neither a chiyuv nor an issur. I personally don't
celebrate Thanksgiving but I don't think it's a problem if you have family
members who do, and who want you to join them. I would not say Merry
Chr*stmas but I will say Happy Thanksgiving with no qualms. T</DIV>
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<DIV>his is not a religious holiday, it is a national holiday. I also see
no problem with hanging a flag on my porch for July 4 or having a barbecue on
Labor Day. The fact that the founders of this nation believed in G-d and
wished to thank Him does not mean that Thanksgiving is a Christian
holiday. Some of the Founding Fathers were Deists, Theists or whatever --
they were not all Christians. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The Constitution forbids the establishment of a religion but we
nevertheless have a national day to thank G-d -- which, until just a few decades
ago, was considered perfectly normal and in no way "the establishment of
religion." Thanksgiving is the rite of no church, not Catholic nor
Protestant, not British nor French. It is a non-religious national day of
thanking G-d for the blessings He bestows upon us, and the fact that America has
such a day is one of the things that makes this country so exceptional and so
admirable. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Of course nowadays many if not most Americans leave G-d out of
Thanksgiving altogether, and many textbooks, in the spirit of Political
Correctness, teach that it was originally a day for the Pilgrims to thank
the Indians. To the extent that it not only is not a religious holiday,
but has even become an atheist holiday, there is even less reason for a Jew to
worry about it, but, hm, personally I think that leaving G-d out of it lessens
its importance and mars the greatness of America. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In my natal home we did not make a big deal out of Thanksgiving and did not
eat turkey but we did eat pumpkin pie and made some passing reference to the
fact that it was Thanksgiving. My father zt'l did celebrate July 4 --
for some years, our family and the family of R' Shlomo Danziger amu'sh used to
get together on the Fourth for a picnic. My father did not consider it
obligatory to celebrate the Fourth but he did see it as having an element of
hakaras hatov to a malchus shel chessed that allows us Jews to build our Torah
mosdos and to live in peace. </DIV>
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<DIV>The mainstream charedi position is to reject any type of interaction on a
national level with anything non-Jews do but there are pockets of
exceptions within the chareidi community. We -- the exceptions, the Hirschians
-- regard patriotism as a form of hakaras hatov to the country we live in,
and certainly not as a betrayal of our loyalty to Eretz Yisrael and to our
own people. Thanking G-d for His blessings to America (and to us
personally) is a form of patriotism, and can be subsumed under the category of
"Hevei mispallel beshloma shel malchus." Certainly we would encourage the
goyim to celebrate Thanksgiving, and to be sure and remember Who should be
thanked.</DIV>
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<DIV><FONT lang=0 face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"
PTSIZE="10"><BR><B>--Toby Katz<BR>==========<BR><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0
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