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<p>In Avodah V26#204, RJIR asked:<br>
> But what if shimon takes the water bottle with a claim that reuvain owes him money and let bet din decide. <<br>
I may be totally off-base and in left field (hmmm, any other baseball metaphors? :)), but I would say Shim'on's rationale is irrelevant -- he's a thief, and he has been qoneh the bottle. <br>
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> Does reuvain have the right to kill shimon if that's the only way to get the water back? what if shimon has no claim other than he wants to live? <<br>
Perhaps R'uvein's dilemma depends on whether "haba bamachteres" applies even after the thief has stolen from the property owner?<br>
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All the best from<br>
--Michael Poppers via RIM pager</body></html>