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<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Old TK: </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial color=#000000
size=2><BR>> <BR>> If I had dismissed the *halacha* (women can't be
witnesses in court) on the <BR>> grounds that the *halacha* was
"incompatible with modern, progressive <BR>> sensibilities," you might
have a point. That would be a non-Orthodox thing to <BR>>
do. However I did NOT say, "The Chinuch only rejects women as
witnesses <BR>> because he lived in 13th century Spain."<BR>>
<BR>> What the Chinuch did here was to speculate as to the *reason* for
the <BR>> halacha. IIANM, the Gemara itself does not give a
reason. The /reason/ given <BR>> by the Chinuch is only his
opinion. The halacha stands whether or not we <BR>> understand
the reason behind it. I accept the halacha but I do not accept
<BR>> the reason he gives. I believe that his understanding of women's
<BR>> capabilities was colored by his time and place.
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<DIV><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>From: Yitzhak Grossman <A
href="mailto:celejar@gmail.com">celejar@gmail.com</A><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR> <BR>>> "... But RnTK seems to have no problem
with<BR>rejecting Hashkafos of Rishonim that can be attributed to
their<BR>particular cultures."<BR><BR>So I myself acknowledged the distinction
that RnTK makes here, and<BR>that's why I mentioned the institution of the
Maharat, rather than some<BR>blatant revision of Halachah. Pace RnTK, its
proponents ought to be<BR>perfectly entitled to argue that any post-Talmudic
Hashkafah regarding<BR>women may be disregarded as having been based upon
someone's<BR>"understanding of women's capabilities" which has been "colored by
his<BR>time and place", and as long as they follow Halachah, RnTK ought
to<BR>have no quarrel with them. <<<BR><BR>>>>></DIV>
<DIV>There is a huge difference between
1. accepting or rejecting a
given commentary's hashkafic understanding and</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> 2. changing long-accepted PRACTICE.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>===</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Let's look for a moment at this sentence:
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>>>But RnTK seems to have no problem with<BR>rejecting Hashkafos of
Rishonim that can be attributed to their<BR>particular cultures. <<</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Spealomg of "rejecting hashkafos of Rishonim" -- has there not been endless
discussion, even here on Avodah, over the issue of the Rambam and his
Aristotelianism? </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Have there not been many in the past, and even today, who reject part of
what the Rambam wrote hashkafically?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Do those who reject the Rambam's Aristotelian ideas thereby arrogate to
themselves the right to change halachic decisions, or even to change any custom
or common practice?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>===</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>As for your contention that I "ought to have no quarrel" with the
proponents of the Maharat, I just don't see where you get that at all. I
have a list of objections to the Maharat idea as long as your arm. Just a
few:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>1. As already stated -- disagreeing with a particular
authority's /understanding/ of a given law does not give you the right to change
that law or to change any minhag, custom or practice. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>2. The Maharat does not fill any need (pace RMS) that cannot more
than adequately be filled by present arrangements. Any woman who
does not feel comfortable asking a rav her shailos can easily find a
knowledgeable woman who can answer 90% of the halachic questions that come her
way and who can in turn, bring the remaining 10% to a rav. I myself
answer "shailos" all the time, e.g., "Should I have surgery this week?"
(No, postpone it until after Tisha B'Av if it can be postponed without
endangering your health.) (Actual question.)</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>3. Not only does it not fill a need, it contributes to the
denigration of Orthodoxy, of halacha, of respect for rabbanim, of yiras
Shamayim. How does it do all that? By saying to the critics of
Orthodoxy, not, "Come and study" but "Yes, you're right, the Torah from the day
it was given and until today has been disrespectful and discriminatory against
women, but we are now going to fix and correct that blatant injustice."</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>4. The liberal churches and the liberal "Jewish" denominations have
already discovered that when you eliminate the distinctions between male and
female roles in religious ritual, the men stay away and the religion becomes a
female religion. You can't force the men to come. It is not in
women's interest to have a religion that their men stay away from. It is a
million times worth it to let the men have the public honor of assigned
roles that "only men can do" in order to have the men actually show up
at services. Men who show up then become better human beings all around
because of the influence of religion in general and the Torah in particular (I
guess I should say lehavdil -- I don't mean to imply that Torah is just
another religion on an a la carte menu).</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>5, 6, 7, etc -- maybe another time.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT lang=0 face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"
PTSIZE="10"><B>--Toby
Katz<BR>==========<BR><BR><BR><BR>_____________________</B></FONT></DIV></DIV></FONT></FONT><DIV CLASS="aol_ad_footer" ID="1e7c054aa2441368ca964e7b30ef9aae"><br/><font style="color:black;font:normal 10pt arial,san-serif;"> <hr style="margin-top:10px"/><B>An Excellent Credit Score is 750. <A HREF=http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221323048x1201367271/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=JulyExcfooterNO62>See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps!</A></B></font></DIV></BODY></HTML>