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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Prof. Frimer was kind to comment on my post and i
certainly appreciate his remarks. In one sense it is symbolic, and yet there
seem to formulations of eidus here. the taz in 268:5 certainly thinks
so.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>i would add that it may more than just a minhag.
see radbaz, responsa from a manuscript, orach chayim, yoreh de'ah (part 8), no.
61, in his last paragraph employs the term "tiknu" meaning it's a regulation
which places it a bit higher than a minhag. granted he understands the eidus
like we are mei'id to yichud haborei in the shma, and you rightfully call that
symbolic testimony, but in the case of shabbat, radbaz certainly understood that
to say it standing was formulated as a takanah following standard choshen
mishpat proceedures of testimony.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>bebirchot hatorah</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>shlomo pick</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman">I think that Rav Pick is being a bit too
literal in his reading of the <EM>Rishonim </EM>in this regard. What the
<EM>Hazon Ish</EM> is saying is that these <EM>Rishonim</EM>
maintain that reciting <EM>vaYekhulu</EM> is LIKE giving <EM>eidut</EM>.
Our observing Shabbat, our saying vaYekhulu is like bearing witness that
Hashem is the creator. It is symbolic - not literal. If it
were real testimony, it could not be given at night, together with relatives
and other <EM>Pesulim</EM>, women would be exempt, we would need a bona fide
<EM>Bet Din</EM> listening etc. Since it is not REAL testimony the
Hazon Ish maintains that as a Hovat haYahid it can be said by
individuals. But nevertheless the <EM>minhag</EM> of standing raffirms
the testimony symbolism of <EM>vaYekhulu</EM> - but it is only a
<EM>minhag</EM>, not din and certainly not <EM>me'akev</EM>.
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<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman">The Sefer haManhig in Hilkhot Shabbat says
that saying Kiddush is also Eidut. [That is the source of those who
stand.] Does that mean one can't say it sitting? that women are
exempt {they are explicitly obligated}, that one can't say it in the presence
of family. Of course not! It is symbolic - not
literal.</FONT></DIV>
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