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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Times"><FONT size=3>Re: our recent discussions of Chet Reuvein K’Pshuto or not. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Times"><FONT size=3>From: </FONT></SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Times"><A href="http://machzikeihadas.blogspot.com/2009/04/critique-of-rabbi-jeremy-weiders-when.html" target=_blank rel=nofollow><FONT size=3>Critique of Rabbi Jeremy Weider's "When the Torah Doesn't Mean What it Says"</FONT></A></SPAN> </DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><A href="http://machzikeihadas.blogspot.com/2009/04/critique-of-rabbi-jeremy-weiders-when.html" target=_blank rel=nofollow><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>http://machzikeihadas.blogspot.com/2009/04/critique-of-rabbi-jeremy-weiders-when.html</FONT></A>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>R. Sadia Gaon:</FONT>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Times">….Emunos v’Deos 7:2. But although this passage cited is directly relevant, I believe the presentation of the Gaon’s position was incomplete and understated. The Gaon was very much an opponent of allegorizing scripture. While Rabbi Weider almost takes it for granted that <EM><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Times">halachic</SPAN></EM> passages not be taken allegorically, the Gaon sees this as a very real potential risk once allegorical interpretation is allowed to replace the simple meaning, and its application to narratives is an additional concern, “if this kind of interpretation is necessary for the legal section of Scripture, it must likewise apply to the narrative portion.” (E.D. 7:4)…..[snip]</SPAN>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Times">The equivocal language of Genesis 3:20 where Eve is called the “Mother of all Living” was certainly not understood by its original audience as indicating all living species descended from Eve, and this is made clear by the context. Likewise the description of God as a “devouring fire” found in Deuteronomy 4:24 is a more or less clear example of figurative speech and would have been understood as such by its original audience…....</SPAN>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Times">Rambam: </SPAN>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Moreh Nevuchim II:25.</FONT>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><A title="" href="http://us.mc12.mail.yahoo.com/mc/showFolder;_ylc=X3oDMTQ3czRvNGpoBEFjdGlvbgNDaGVjayBNYWlsBEludGwDdXMETG5rVHlwA1JlZ3VsYXIEUGFydFR5cGUDWWFob28hBFNyY2hDdXJyA21lc3NhZ2UEU3JjaERlc3QDbWVzc2FnZQRfUXVlcnlJZAM0MDExNjQ1MDM0YTFjMWNjMDk1NDg4BF9TAzE1MDUwMDYxMg--?fid=Inbox&extraargs=%26.rand%3D146133937#_ftn1" target=_blank rel=nofollow name=_ftnref1><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>[5] In the absence of being compelled otherwise, “we take the Bible literally” (ibid).</FONT></A>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Rashba:</FONT>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Times">While Saadia Gaon reserves allegorical interpretation for when observation or reason prevents one from accepting the simple meaning, and the Rambam rejects allegorical interpretation when there is an equally plausible explanation which preserves the simple meaning, the Rashba seems to allow allegorical interpretation to uproot the simple meaning of the text whenever one is confronted with a conflict with “science”… [hb: footnote 7: See Chidushei HaRashba, Perushei HaHagados, Mosad HaRav Kook edition page 102.]… [snip]</SPAN>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Times">….The Rashba contends that when a scientific position conflicts with a tradition (<EM><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Times">kabalah</SPAN></EM>) we follow the tradition and do not interpret the passage allegorically.<A title="" href="http://us.mc12.mail.yahoo.com/mc/showFolder;_ylc=X3oDMTQ3czRvNGpoBEFjdGlvbgNDaGVjayBNYWlsBEludGwDdXMETG5rVHlwA1JlZ3VsYXIEUGFydFR5cGUDWWFob28hBFNyY2hDdXJyA21lc3NhZ2UEU3JjaERlc3QDbWVzc2FnZQRfUXVlcnlJZAM0MDExNjQ1MDM0YTFjMWNjMDk1NDg4BF9TAzE1MDUwMDYxMg--?fid=Inbox&extraargs=%26.rand%3D146133937#_ftn2" target=_blank rel=nofollow name=_ftnref2>[8].<SPAN> </SPAN></A>Ibid page 104.</SPAN>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Times">Ramban:</SPAN>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Times">The Ramban in his commentary on the Torah criticizes the Rambam (which is cited with approval by the Ribash<A title="" href="http://us.mc12.mail.yahoo.com/mc/showFolder;_ylc=X3oDMTQ3czRvNGpoBEFjdGlvbgNDaGVjayBNYWlsBEludGwDdXMETG5rVHlwA1JlZ3VsYXIEUGFydFR5cGUDWWFob28hBFNyY2hDdXJyA21lc3NhZ2UEU3JjaERlc3QDbWVzc2FnZQRfUXVlcnlJZAM0MDExNjQ1MDM0YTFjMWNjMDk1NDg4BF9TAzE1MDUwMDYxMg--?fid=Inbox&extraargs=%26.rand%3D146133937#_ftn3" target=_blank rel=nofollow name=_ftnref3>[10]) for saying that certain encounters </A>with angels which the Patriarch’s experienced had really occurred in dreams. [hb: footnote 10; See Menachem Kellner’s translation, Rabbi Isaac Bar Sheshet’s Responsum Concerning the Study of Greek Philosophy, Tradition Vol. 15 (Fall 1975), pages 110-118.]</SPAN>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Times">The Meiri:</SPAN>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Times">The Meiri has three classifications of Scripture with respect to allegorical interpretation, those which must be interpreted only allegorically, those which can have an additional allegorical meaning, and those which may not be interpreted allegorically at all. The Meiri includes the creation of the world in the latter category which is forbidden to interpret allegorically.<A title="" href="http://us.mc12.mail.yahoo.com/mc/showFolder;_ylc=X3oDMTQ3czRvNGpoBEFjdGlvbgNDaGVjayBNYWlsBEludGwDdXMETG5rVHlwA1JlZ3VsYXIEUGFydFR5cGUDWWFob28hBFNyY2hDdXJyA21lc3NhZ2UEU3JjaERlc3QDbWVzc2FnZQRfUXVlcnlJZAM0MDExNjQ1MDM0YTFjMWNjMDk1NDg4BF9TAzE1MDUwMDYxMg--?fid=Inbox&extraargs=%26.rand%3D146133937#_ftn4" target=_blank rel=nofollow name=_ftnref4>[12]</A> [hb: footnote 12; Beis HaBechira 3:11, cited in <A
href="http://books.google.com/books?id=7EjIm3pAfhQC&pg=PA197&lpg=PA197&dq=rashba+allegorical&source=web&ots=YMwlP48rqC&sig=jJ2LYe2Lp8qnVOCgFNPZROK5Nr8&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result#PPA205,M1" target=_blank rel=nofollow>Interpretation and Allegory, page 205</A>.]</SPAN>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Times">HB: it seems to me that the most conservative of the Rishonim mentioned above, would suggest not interpreting halacha and/or scriptural directives allegorically.<SPAN> </SPAN>What then should we do with: scriptural commands to: 1. give 40 lashes (not 39) 2. count omer 50 days (not 49) 3. ayin tachas ayin, shein tachas shein literally (not mammon); 4. eat matzah 6 days v. 7 days; 5. not outside on shabbas (a la karaites). 6. lo tevashel gdi b'cheilev imo (without any attendant milk/meat prohibitions besides for the specific ones mentioned in the Torah), etc????</SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3> </FONT></DIV></DIV>
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