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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Prof Levine wrote<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>>Let me, for the sake of argument, grant you that there is no
simchas Yom Tov at night. What about causing one's family members Tzar or at
least considerable inconvenience to one's family and guests? Is one allowed to
do this for a minhag or even a D'Rabbonon. I do not know.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Good question. Mishna brurah says hold Arvit until leilah mamash.
Kaf hachayim also says that also, but adds if that if that is impossible (perhaps
he is alluding to a place that has only one minyan and they are mekabel yom tov
from let’s plag hamincha) and therefore cannot meacher the tefilah,
should still wait until leilah mamash before making Kiddush, and this he says
twice, at the end of 494:1 and in 494:2. Aruch haShulchan concurs that Kiddush
should be done (ein mekadshin ad Leila mamash). So even if one could
daven a bit earlier, the Kiddush should be held off.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Now I don’t understand. In Vilna and Radin where the
chafetz chayim (rav Mendel Zach’s father-in-law and btw, I was tested in
RIETS in YU by rav Zachs for he was the bochen during my time) was active,
there were no old men, or women or za’ar. And in all of <st1:place
w:st="on"><st1:country-region w:st="on">Lithuania</st1:country-region></st1:place>
where aruch hashulchan was, there were no elderly, women and children. Just
bachurei yeshiva? And in <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Baghdad</st1:City></st1:place>,
which is much earlier than Lita, there were no women and children and elderly
either. Likewise in the Taz’s community and the entire list found in kaf
hachayim. I simply don’t understand, those elderly didn’t have all
our modern conveniences, all that food, bassar veyayin vechol tuv, and those
blintzes, and gashmiyut and certainly the yeshivalite didn’t have it, and
perhaps their hunger pains were greater, and all these gedolei olam say to
wait. How insensitive to those guests and those poor people who are waiting
for Kiddush and the meal.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>I am going to add something else. Professor Daniel Sperber has
two volumes recently published with this agenda in mind – the friendly
posek. The first is Darka shel Halakha, with such sub-chapter headings as in chapter
III itself entitled Halakhic Super Principles concerning Kavod haBriyot. This
theme is furthered in his second volume Netivot Pesika which includes the
following chapter: the friendly Posek and includes the following
subchapters: Economic sensitivity, sensitivity to the dignity of man and
hsis Za’ar, sensitivity to the family, sanctity of life and pikuach
nefesh. He concludes with a chapter on koach hateira, humility, and
striving for the truth (perhaps that’s in line with this first chapter
mandating academic study of Talmud, including use of manuscripts, academics
methods, textual layers of the mishna and Talmud, historical background etc)
all for the posek looking to be sensitive to the needs of this fellow man,
something I will add that apparently the chafetz chayim in his mishna brurah,
or r. Epstein in his aruch hashulkhan, and r. sofer in kaf hachayim weren’t.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Oh I forgot the main theme of Prof. Sperber’s first book which
expands that theme of kavod habriyot – giving women aliyot, so that they
should not have za’ar…<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Chag sameiach<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Shlomo Pick</span></font><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=HE dir=RTL
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>îàú</span></font></b><span
dir=LTR></span><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'><span dir=LTR></span>:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Prof.
Levine [mailto:llevine@stevens.edu] <br>
<b><span lang=HE dir=RTL style='font-weight:bold'>ðùìç</span><span
dir=LTR></span><span dir=LTR></span>:</b> Wednesday, May 20, 2009 5:48 PM<br>
<b><span lang=HE dir=RTL style='font-weight:bold'>àì</span><span
dir=LTR></span><span dir=LTR></span>:</b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">avodah@lists.aishdas.org</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span lang=HE dir=RTL style='font-weight:bold'>òåú÷</span><span
dir=LTR></span><span dir=LTR></span>:</b> Shlomo Pick<br>
<b><span lang=HE dir=RTL style='font-weight:bold'>ðåùà</span><span
dir=LTR></span><span dir=LTR></span>:</b> Simchas Yom Tov</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>At 06:25 AM 5/20/2009, R. S. Pick wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>The following argument was suggested:<br>
<br>
There are opinions that allow one to daven early and even make <br>
<br>
Kiddush early. Also, waiting to daven after Tzeis is a D'Rabbonon. <br>
<br>
However, simchas Yom Tov is a D'oreisa. Most people do not enjoy <br>
<br>
beginning to eat at say 9:30. For kids it is particularly difficult. <br>
<br>
Therefore, davening after Tzeis and then beginning to eat late <br>
<br>
conflicts with the simchas Yom Tov of many. How can this D'Rabbonon <br>
<br>
take precedence over simchas Yom Tov?<br>
<br>
In the areivim list I suggested that concerning simchas yom tov at nite:<br>
<br>
Not so simple about that simchas yom tov, some authorities hold there is no<br>
simchas yom tov at nite, but only in the daytime in accordance with korbanot<br>
hachag. Accordingly, eat your beef and drink that wine in the day time.
The<br>
only nite that simcha is mandated is leil shmini atzeres which has a special<br>
limud (ribbui).<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Now that the above argument has become more sophisticated with d'rabbanons<br>
and d'oraitas involved, let's not forget that most mainstream rishonim and<br>
posekim hold that keriyat shma should be recited after tzeis. This was
then<br>
combined with birchot keriyas shma to be recited after tzeis. The Rosh who<br>
represents minhag ashkenaz and others record that one should say tefila with<br>
the congregation but wait with keriyat shma and brachos until after tzeis<br>
According to all these posekim, davening immediately after sunset is a<br>
bedieved situation. Mention was made of Jacob Katz's article about the<br>
development of the custom to daven early, and how with the vilna gaon and<br>
the Chassidim and the advent of normal clocks, they went back to the old<br>
time religion of the first mishna of brachot and wait with arvit so that<br>
keriyas shma and brachot should be said on time.<br>
<br>
So perhaps the argument should be reversed: on the day of accepting the<br>
torah one should look not look for kulos (lenient rulings) but return to the<br>
pristine halakha of the very first mishna in sha'as as poskened by the<br>
majority of rishonim and posekim and say keriyat shma with brachot bezmano. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
<br>
I am the one who wrote the first paragraph above about starting to eat at 9:30.
First of all, I am wrong about the time here in <st1:place w:st="on">Brooklyn</st1:place>.
The YI of J will daven Maariv at 9:08 next Thursday night. Allowing 20 minutes
for Maariv and 10 minutes for me to walk home means that I will not be home
before 9:40. Other nearby shuls will start Maariv even later. Shkia on 5/28 in <st1:place
w:st="on">Brooklyn</st1:place> is 8:17 PM. Some shuls will wait 60 minutes
after Shkia to start Maariv, others 72 minutes. Those who daven with these
minyanim will start to eat even later. <br>
<br>
Let me, for the sake of argument, grant you that there is no simchas Yom
Tov at night. What about causing one's family members Tzar or at least
considerable inconvenience to one's family and guests? Is one allowed to do
this for a minhag or even a D'Rabbonon. I do not know. <br>
<br>
What I do know is what was written in the article "Setting Limits Based on
the Insights of Harav Mendel Zaks, zt'l" that appeared in the
Hamodia Magazine on March 18, 2009. I have posted this article with the
permission of the Hamodia at <a
href="http://www.stevens.edu/golem/llevine/hamodia/setting_limits.pdf"
eudora=autourl>http://www.stevens.edu/golem/llevine/hamodia/setting_limits.pdf</a><br>
<br>
The author, Rabbi Moshe Hubner, writes:<br>
<br>
"On the other hand, the Beis Hamikdash was a stationary building; <i><span
style='font-style:italic'>Bnei Yisrael </span></i>were never going to move it
to a location outside Yerushalayim. Therefore, the more donations were
accepted, the more <i><span style='font-style:italic'>mitzvos </span></i>the
givers would acquire and the more glorious the Beis Hamikdash would appear, at
nobody elses expense.<br>
<br>
Harav Zaks stresses that this should teach us all a great lesson in
consideration. In attempting to fulfill a commandment, a person must first
consider the impact of the <i><span style='font-style:italic'>mitzvah </span></i>on
others. Even if a deed appears good or charitable, one must contemplate and
project the outcome beforehand. An individual will not receive the same benefit
and reward for doing a <i><span style='font-style:italic'>mitzvah </span></i>if
it creates a burden for someone else."<br>
<br>
In many homes starting to eat after 9:30 does indeed create a burden for
others. (This is why early minyanim of Erev Shabbos after Pesach are so popular
in many places.) Given this and the fact that there are those who say that one
can daven early, I fail to see why one would wait. It seems to me that
the truly religious approach would be to have concern for one's family and
daven early.<br>
<br>
I have been told that Reb Yisroel Salanter used to say, "The other
person's gashmius is your ruchnius." (If this is not an accurate quote,
there are certainly many stories about him to show that this is the way he
conducted himself.) Why not do the ruchnius thing? <br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<x-sigsep>
<p></x-sigsep><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Yitzchok
Levine<br>
<br>
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