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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>My previous response was just a partial as I had
not yet read the next two citations that RMB posted.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I appreciate the direction in which the ideas from
<FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>R' Elozor Reich, Maadanei Yom Tov, and the
Chinuch move, but still feel the answer remains somewhat nebulous and open to
further questions. This notion of the "virtual" count of day "zero" in arrears
with the Chinuch's explanation leaves one wondering why it should be virtual?
After all if the count is in arrears, and the work and anticipation of the
mitzvos of the first day are now over, so why not count for real? Then of
course one would have the problem of the final day (the day before Shavuous) not
being counted unless we actually count FIFTY days (as the pasuk actually
says). This brings us to the obvious question of the seeming contradiction
in the pesukim in Emor, where we are told to count 50 days, but consisting of
only 7 complete weeks (49 days). Temimos in the pasuk is only an adjective
to weeks not days, which I guess are temimos by inference from weeks, ie a
complete 49 day/7 week period. But this could leave us with the 1st virtual day
(1st of Pesach) not necessarily complete (outside the "complete" 7 week
period). This leaves the pshetele about the reason for the extra day to the
1st Shavuous (Matan Torah) as less than compelling. This does however answer why
we count the weeks at the 6/7 point since if this is in arrears it is actually
7/7 point and thus in arrears for the complete week.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I also think the ordinal/cardinal issue is a red
herring as is the notion of temimos as an answer to my question. They do
not imply a count of days in arrears, as I could hear these going either way -
neither being more compelling than the other. We seem to want to dance at both
chasunas, its 49 that are also fifty that are sort of in arrears but not really
as we only count 49 with 49 brochos (which implies count in
advance).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Also why the switch from shabosos to shovuous
respectively in Emor and Re'ai?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Still somewhat confused,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Kol Tuv</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Chaim Manaster</FONT></DIV>
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