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<p>In Avodah Digest V25#401, RYG wrote:<br>
> Someone asked me off-list if I'd say that most victims of the Holocaust<br>
did not die Al Kiddush Ha'Shem. <<br>
Hineni. I kept the conversation private because I didn't know (es chatoay ani mazkir: my Areivim-digest reading is haphazard at best) if someone else had already asked the Q. <br>
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As RYG knows, he and I have been considering his namesake Yitzchaq Avinu's status, w/in the context of the nisayon known as the Aqeidah, as a paradigm for both his opinion (YA was a qadosh because he voluntarily agreed to give up his life to fulfill the Divine directive) and the other tzad (YA was n'qadeish when, with no will or intent of his own, he was designated by Avraham as a qorban, and he didn't lose that status [and wouldn't have lost it even if he had not voluntarily agreed to be a qorban]). (For those who care, emotionally I'm with the other tzad, but I understand his argument.)<br>
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Those on this list who disagree with RYG (or, at least, are arguing with his position) seem to be repeatedly quoting those who speak of Jews becoming q'doshim. Is it silly for me to ask if there's a difference between (a) someone being a qadosh for dying because he's a Jew and (b) someone dying al qiddush haSheim?<br>
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In #402, R'Micha a post ended by writing:<br>
> And so, I would argue (and have before, but at less length) that the<br>
majority of the people we describe most Shabbasos as "qehillos haqodesh<br>
shemaseru nafsham al qiddushas hasheim" didn't actually choose Yahadus<br>
over death. <<br>
The subject of "mas'ru" is the q'hillos, not the individuals, and no, I'm not playing a semantics game. Yes, Av haRachamim is primarily about individuals ("hachasidim v'haysharim v'hat'mimim..."), but I don't think one can gloss over the appellation of "al q'dushas haSheim" being applied to the q'hillah, which did choose to be wiped out as an assembly of Jews rather than convert. That said, RSRH did emphasize the sacrifice of the individuals in his essay (Collected Writings I, Iyar III [pp. 141-151]) on "minsharim qallu...la'asos R'tzon Qonam v'cheifetz Tzuram"...but he also spoke only of "those who were prepared at every moment to cast away freedom and life rather than to surrender the Torah, who were happy to die for Torah if they were not fortunate enough to live for Torah" and didn't at all consider what R'Micha assumes of the "[silent] majority." <br>
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All the best from<br>
--Michael Poppers via RIM pager</body></html>