<div dir="ltr"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 4:32 PM, Richard Wolpoe <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:rabbirichwolpoe@gmail.com">rabbirichwolpoe@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div dir="ltr"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div class="Ih2E3d">On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 12:09 PM, Zev Sero <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:zev@sero.name" target="_blank">zev@sero.name</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
The problem with this is that mal'achim are not supposed to have<br>
bechira. Indeed, the definition of shituf is the belief that the<br>
powers above, such as the sun and moon or the mal'achim, have the<br>
bechira not to convey Hashem's blessings to us, and therefore have<br>
to be cajoled, or even bribed, in order to do so, just as is the<br>
case with a king's ministers and servants. </blockquote><div><br> </div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Zev, ditto.</blockquote>
</div><br>Actaulyl we debated this. There are those who say taht mal'achim do NOT lack behira but lack a yetzer horo. </div></blockquote></div><br>See the final paragraphs of Eliyahu Zuta. This source states explicitly that were Mal'achim left on this plane they would havea yetzer horo, too and it is pretty clear that they do not lack behcira just a yetzer horo.<br>
<br>So they have zero desire to commit a sin. But they have the ability to choose. <br>I think the story of savin Lot suggests this. the Mal'ach is told to destroy all 5 cities but relents to Lot's request regarding Zo'ar. That is because one mal'ach was there to save Lot. So there was a conflict as to what to do. It does not apepar that HKBH was consulted, they simply chose to relent to Lot. They could have refused and told Lot to keep on going or else. Look at the ultimatum given Mrs. Lot as an example. <br clear="all">
<br>-- <br>Gmar Chasima Tova<br>Best Wishes for the New Year 5769<br>RabbiRichWolpoe@Gmail.com<br>see: <a href="http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/">http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/</a><br>
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