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<DIV><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>From: "Rich, Joel" <A
href="mailto:JRich@sibson.com">JRich@sibson.com</A><BR><BR>>>See Yam shel
shlomo Bava Kamma 7:37 (ein lcha seuda gdola mizeh) on the<BR>day he
becomes a chiyuv.<<<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>From:
"Michael Kopinsky" <A
href="mailto:mkopinsky@gmail.com">mkopinsky@gmail.com</A><BR><BR>>>The
same can be said about a siyum. Just because some guy says the names of<BR>Rav
Pappa's sons we get to party, and have meat during the 9 days? (Or eat<BR>on
erev pesach?)<BR><BR>Rather, it's clear that a seudas mitzvah is warranted for a
significant<BR>milestone or accomplishment. The poskim have said a bar mitzvah
is<BR>significant enough for that, and I don't see why a bat mitzvah would be
any<BR>different.<<<BR><BR></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>>>>>></DIV>
<DIV>There is a difference between an "accomplishment" and a "milestone."
Having a siyum marks an accomplishment -- there was something you had to
do. Having a birthday is a milestone. There are many milestones that
go unmarked. For instance, the day a woman gives birth to a baby is a
huge milestone for her, guaranteed to be remembered for the rest of her
life. But there is no se'uda associated with it. She can make a
se'udas hoda'ah if she wants but most people don't. I suppose the party
made for a bar or bas mitzva could be se'udas hoda'ah or if the
boy makes a siyum it could be a se'udas mitzva.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>RJR quoted the "Yam shel shlomo Bava Kamma 7:37 (ein lcha seuda
gdola mizeh)." The same logic would seem to apply equally to a bas mitzva,
yet there never was any such thing as a bas mitzva celebration until the
Reconstructionists and then the Reform came up with it. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I find it highly ironic that we are noch-shleppers to the Reform movement
in this, that today most charedim make a party for their 12-year-old girls and
don't even know where the idea of a bas mitzva party came from. Not that
there's anything wrong with that, to quote Jerry Seinfeld.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>AFAIK even the bar mitzva celebration is a relatively recent
innovation. IIRC in MOAG it says that R' Yakov Kaminetsky did not have any
kind of celebration for his bar mitzva. He was a young boy away at
yeshiva far from home and maybe the Rosh Yeshiva wished him mazal tov on
his birthday. Maybe he got an aliyah. Did anybody even drink a
lechaim? Probably not. I think that was pretty common.</DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT lang=0 face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"
PTSIZE="10"><B><BR></B><BR><B>--Toby
Katz<BR>=============<BR><BR></B><BR></FONT></DIV></FONT><BR><BR><BR><DIV><FONT style="color: black; font: normal 10pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF;"><HR style="MARGIN-TOP: 10px">Psssst...Have you heard the news? <A title="http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014" href="http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014" target="_blank">There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com</A>.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>