<div dir="ltr"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 8:55 AM, Rich, Joel <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:JRich@sibson.com">JRich@sibson.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Interesting debate which reminds me of what R' Asher Weiss said about<br>
being a posek - Sometimes a posek must just use his best judgment<br>
(svarat halev, hargashat halev) and it's hard to draw a clear line<br>
between logic, emotions, intuition and thoughts. The posek needs a lot<br>
of siyata d'shmaya.<br>
<br>
BTW, iirc the gemara sites halacha lmaaseh as being the best source<br>
(i.e. it was not just taught in the beit medrash but resulted from an<br>
actual situation and psak). If so, how do those who favor the MB over<br>
the AH"S explain it?<br>
<br>
KT<br>
<font color="#888888">Joel Rich<br>
</font></blockquote></div><br>Micha thinks I am advocating an algorithmic psaq. Not quite<br><br>Here is what I am advocating:<br><div style="margin-left: 40px;">An objective approahc or process to psaq.<br>I am not demanding a uniform RESULT<br>
</div><br>You can see this manifest between the BY, the SA and the Rema. Do you know the single most common sources for the Rema? It is the BY. yet he is frequrntly arguing with the SA's resultes But they are debating within THE SAME BOX!<br>
<br>This is confirmed by the Levush,. The Levush actaully came up wiht a 3rd set of decissions using ONLY the BY and the Rema. [The hagahos on the Levush added some material from OUTSIDE THE BOX]<br><br>AISI, their was a kind of Chasima at the time of the SA/Rema. You hardly ever see nos'ei keilim going back to Talmud of early Rsihonim except as background. Debates on the girsa'os are pretty much settled, even if the settlement is an greement to disagree. The early issues are settled and psaw has moved on.<br>
<br>This is a BIG difference between a page in the Tur and a page in the SA. Just look at the 2 and see what era is being discussed. <br><br>So I could come up with a porgramm of WHAT SOURCES to research but still not dictate the results of that research. So the algorithm would only be re: the proces not the conclusion AISI.<br clear="all">
<br>Now VERY difficult cases or brand new cases are starting from outside the Box. The new technologies re: petrie dish and fertizlization etc. blazes new trails that will need a bit of originality.<br><br>But sometimes posqim just state things from out there in left field [or more likely RIGHT field!]<br>
<br>===================================================================<br>Re: Huerisitcs:<br><br>Using GOOGLE I cam up with the following and I I interpsrsed some comments<br><br><p>Definitions of <b>heuristics</b> on the Web:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&channel=s&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=03X&defl=en&q=define:heuristics&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title">http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&channel=s&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=03X&defl=en&q=define:heuristics&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title</a><br>
</p><blockquote style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;" class="gmail_quote"><font size="-1"><li>Of
or relating to exploratory problem-solving techniques that utilize
self-educating techniques (as the evaluation of feedback) to improve ...</li></font><br><font size="-1"><li><a href="http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=0&oi=define&q=http://www.tekies.com/Glossary.htm&usg=AFQjCNEgat03sabKc5bcpuvN39_NPaZFVw"><font color="#008000">www.tekies.com/Glossary.htm</font></a></li>
</font><font size="-1"><li>A
rule-based method of identifying new viruses. This method of scanning
does not rely on specific virus signatures. The advantage of the
heuristic scan is that it is not fooled by a new variant of an existing
virus. However, it might occasionally report suspicious code in normal
programs. ...</li></font><br><font size="-1"><li><a href="http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=1&oi=define&q=http://viruscenter.zks.freedom.net/html/glossary.html&usg=AFQjCNG73OaMTv0-J11yufk2FwNLghA3Aw"><font color="#008000">viruscenter.zks.freedom.net/html/glossary.html</font></a></li>
</font><font size="-1"><li>A
problem-solving technique in which the most appropriate solution is
selected using rules. Interfaces using heuristics may perform different
...</li></font><br><font size="-1"><li><a href="http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=2&oi=define&q=http://acypher.com/wwid/BackMatter/Glossary.html&usg=AFQjCNEgkhw01Jz8FByBsjuMLh9WEFZ30w"><font color="#008000">acypher.com/wwid/BackMatter/Glossary.html</font></a></li>
</font></blockquote><div><br>This one is not bad<br> </div><blockquote style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;" class="gmail_quote"><br><font size="-1"></font><font size="-1"><li>
The
set of skills for organizing information at the source for effective
transmission. cf Mnemonics The set of skills for organizing information
...</li></font><br><font size="-1"><li><a href="http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=3&oi=define&q=http://siliclone.tripod.com/books/history/H111.html&usg=AFQjCNGlhOBV-hrkWdtzXIiQQwADqk9C6g"><font color="#008000">siliclone.tripod.com/books/history/H111.html</font></a></li>
</font><font size="-1"><li>The informal, judgmental knowledge of an application area that constitutes the "rules of good judgment" in the field. ...</li></font><br><font size="-1"><li><a href="http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=4&oi=define&q=http://services.eliteral.com/glossary/decision-support-systems-glossary.php&usg=AFQjCNEhkqvtNg4rXiVCltYGldCUjt_NLg"><font color="#008000">services.eliteral.com/glossary/decision-support-systems-glossary.php</font></a></li>
</font><font size="-1"><li>rules
of thumb or very simple guidelines used by consumers to simplify and
expedite their decisions in choosing among alternatives; eg, buy the
least expensive brand or buy the product that sponsors a favorite
baseball team's telecasts.</li></font><br><font size="-1"><li><a href="http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=5&oi=define&q=http://promoprof.babson.edu/Glossary/h/GlossaryH.htm&usg=AFQjCNE3tUn1V0jduNwol_5sjOQ0GDYVeA"><font color="#008000">promoprof.babson.edu/Glossary/h/GlossaryH.htm</font></a></li>
</font><font size="-1"><li>Guidelines that a system administrator uses to intervene where the two-phase commit or abort would otherwise fail.</li></font><br><font size="-1"><li><a href="http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=6&oi=define&q=http://www.ncsa.uiuc.edu/UserInfo/Resources/Hardware/IBMp690/IBM/usr/share/man/info/en_US/a_doc_lib/aixuser/glossary/H.htm&usg=AFQjCNGpisEQrEOEGDTV18ruY59l5j7EPg"><font color="#008000">www.ncsa.uiuc.edu/UserInfo/Resources/Hardware/IBMp690/IBM/usr/share/man/info/en_US/a_doc_lib/aixuser/glossary/H.htm</font></a></li>
</font><font size="-1"><li>Any
of various problem-solving techniques that involve the use of
subjective knowledge, hunches, trial-and-error, rule-of-thumb, and
other such informal but generally accurate methods.</li></font></blockquote><div><br>This is the kind of Psaq I oppose: "Subjective hunches". If a poseiq is stuck he should reserach for hours and not shoot from the hip. <br>
</div><blockquote style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;" class="gmail_quote"><br><font size="-1"><li><a href="http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=7&oi=define&q=http://biopharminternational.findpharma.com/biopharm/article/articleDetail.jsp%3Fid%3D362006%26sk%3D%26date%3D%26pageID%3D21&usg=AFQjCNFULVacJY3BkdlHSxDfqkWLSfbjqA"><font color="#008000">biopharminternational.findpharma.com/biopharm/article/articleDetail.jsp</font></a></li>
</font><font size="-1"><li>Strategies that people use to solve problems.</li></font><br><font size="-1"><li><a href="http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=8&oi=define&q=http://www.geocities.com/chingpascal/glossory.htm&usg=AFQjCNHGzR61HsD_p0vSNSEE709FYBOd1w"><font color="#008000">www.geocities.com/chingpascal/glossory.htm</font></a></li>
</font><font size="-1"><li>A Simple rule of Thumb; technique that works in practice most of the time. (Hill Climbing)</li></font><br><font size="-1"><li><a href="http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=9&oi=define&q=http://www.bryansaunders.net/ccu/binf/&usg=AFQjCNGU-IWVdHof7iORDA8lSnMIr3B47w"><font color="#008000">www.bryansaunders.net/ccu/binf/</font></a></li>
</font><font size="-1"><li>A
heuristic is a method to help to solve a problem, commonly informal. It
is particularly used for a method that often rapidly leads to a
solution ...</li></font><br><font size="-1"><li><a href="http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=10&oi=define&q=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heuristics&usg=AFQjCNFh3en3AQyH3ClpNPSDwHRJhPMVGQ"><font color="#008000">en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heuristics</font></a></li>
</font></blockquote><br>The last one is fine. The BY and Rema basically did this. I do not know why every poseiq does not set up a method and use it - and ONLY deviate in the exceptoinal case.<br><br><br>Kesiva vaChasima Tova<br>
Best Wishes for the New Year 5769<br>RabbiRichWolpoe@Gmail.com<br>see: <a href="http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/">http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/</a><br>
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