<div dir="ltr"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 1:49 PM, Micha Berger <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:micha@aishdas.org">micha@aishdas.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
On Fri, Sep 05, 2008 at 03:18:25AM -0500, Ira Tick wrote:<br>
: What I meant by unity of the soul was whether scientifically,<br>
<div class="Ih2E3d">: so to speak, the speculative and investigative person would describe his<br>
: immaterial self as "one" entity, despite the distinct dimensions of<br>
: experience.<br>
<br>
</div>I think that one's immaterial self is a single process of interlocking<br>
parts, none of which would be the same without their interaction to the<br>
other parts.<br>
<br>
The first chapter of the Vilna Gaon's Even Sheleimah has a title that<br>
can be translated as "the whole purpose of the Torah is to shatter the<br>
middos". Implied in this, and for that matter in RYSalanter's entire<br>
project is the idea that soul and personality are identical.<br>
<br>
: How about when we<br>
<div class="Ih2E3d">: say that G-d is one?<br>
<br>
</div>Hashem, OTOH, is One is a way we can't really understand.<br>
<br>
<div class="Ih2E3d">: someone were to focus only on a subjective spiritual view of religion, then<br>
: actual phenomenological or mathematical unity is irrelevant, which is how<br>
: unity of the soul ties in to my original post of whether holiness is an<br>
: objective mode of existence or merely an emotional state.<br>
<br>
</div>Who said there is a difference between "objective mode of existence"<br>
and emotional state? If the mind is the soul, or at least something<br>
the soul does, then those emotional states are at least part of that<br>
objective mode.<br>
<br>
Tir'u baTov!<br>
-Micha</blockquote><div><br><br>I like what you said about unity being able to refer to the "interlocking" parts of the soul, that rotate and reconfigure but remain interconnected. It's a nice mashal and one I haven't thought of in that exact way before, nor thought about at all for a long time. <br>
</div></div> Even so, if you or anyone else could elaborate...<br><br>As to G-d's Oneness, I would have thought that the unity of the soul would be the only real available precedent, if G-d has the attributes ascribed to Him. In spite of all the restatements of His Oneness and how it is totally different than our own and completely beyond human understanding, in the end, we believe in G-d and paint Him as an actor in our lives with abilities and actions and faculties analogous in some way to our own. As I said, despite their frustrations and caveats, the Rishonim seem to say this clearly, especially R Saadia Gaon in Emunos V'Deos. I'm capable of believing in things I don't fully understand (at least sometimes I am), but its hard not to want to understand just enough to get an idea that's reasonable to believe, even if through [genuinely good] analogies.<br>
<br>I like very much your last point about the emotions themselves being enough reality [for a person to be motivated by (?) ]. I meant specifically some sort of objective reality that's mirrored by our association of emotion with a person or with G-d, like love, which we use to describe the value and importance someone has for us and how we view them through the lens of our affectionate feelings. However, as I said, I like what you wrote because its important for everyone, myself especially, to accept our deepest emotions and our conscience without too much analysis and self-doubt.<br>
<br>When it comes to those guiding and ultimately life-fulfilling feelings, the question "Why?" may have little constructive meaning. We should focus on training ourselves to listen to our conscience and question our actions instead. Then, our inner voice will provide us the knowledge and guidance we need to live life as "right" as can be by whatever definition of right is possible. If that means building an emotional relationship with G-d, and more personal than metaphyiscal definitions of Holy, than so be it -- probably much healthier anyway and the way most people are capable of living.<br>
<br>If the message of Torah is one of love and loyalty, and that those
feelings are self-affirming truths, then we can understand why, when
discussing Avodah MeiAhavah, the Rambam uses the word "Emes" in his
famous line: "Oseh haemes mp'nei shehu emes, v'sof hatovah lavo b'chlal." Love and loyalty to G-d and to others is as lishmah as it gets.<br><br>We should all be zocheh this time of year to learn to respect ourselves, to love G-d and each other in whatever way G-d makes us able, and see only blessings as a result.<br>
<br>-- <br>Ira Tick<br>6519 N Whipple<br>Chicago, IL 60645<br>(414) 699-8285<br><br><a href="mailto:itick1986@gmail.com">itick1986@gmail.com</a><br>
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