<div dir="ltr"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 1:45 PM, Micha Berger <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:micha@aishdas.org" target="_blank">micha@aishdas.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>
Ediyos 1:4-5 all that stuff about gadol mimenu bechokhmah uveminyan.<br>
Where does it make an exception for she'as hadechaq?<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: -1.25in;">I do not have the time to respond
to each of our esteemed moderator's points one at a time.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: -1.25in;"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: -1.25in;">I will give a summary now, and
BEH someday fill in the gaps, perhaps with an essay</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: -1.25in;">.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: -1.25in;">Ask yourself the following
questions and contemplate their implications:</p>
<ol style="margin-top: 0in;" start="1" type="1"><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: -1.25in;">Based upon Torah Principles:</li><ol style="margin-top: 0in;" start="1" type="a"><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: -1.25in;">
Do we want a subjetvie or objective ps'aq?</li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: -1.25in;">Avos: Ein Dan yechid ela Echad.</li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: -1.25in;">Does not the Halcha in Tur/SA 25 repfelct the need for
the possibility of a To'eh bidvar Mishnah?</li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: -1.25in;">Given circular approval of Posqim [i.e. since the
poseiq says it it MUST be OK!] then how can we have a to'eh bidvar Mishnah?
A poseiq is ALWAYS right because he combines sniffim to make himself
correct regardless of <span style=""> </span>Meqoros</li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: -1.25in;">The Torah and Maseches Horyos demans the possibility
of a Sanhedrin that is mistaken. How can that EVER be with Posqim whose
sniffim and Heruistics automatical make them right?</li></ol><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: -1.25in;">From a s'vara point of view:</li><ol style="margin-top: 0in;" start="1" type="a"><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: -1.25in;">
Do you prefer a Poseiq to subscribe to principles <br>
OR</li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: -1.25in;">Do you prefer submitting to a poseiq who makes
subjective decisions based upon his feelings w/o regard to objective
criteria or cherished precedent?</li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: -1.25in;">Do you prefer a Poseiq who lords himself OVER the Halachah
and goes where he feels his Predetermined heuristics bring him?<br>
OR</li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: -1.25in;">Do you prefer a poseiq to say with the modesty of a
Rema to say: "Well, my conclusion is really X but I defer to Y because it
has been established or he is greater etc"<span style=""> </span><br>
OR IOW:</li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: -1.25in;">Do we want a system of LAWS?<br>
OR</li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: -1.25in;"><span style=""> </span>OR a system of
men? <span style=""> </span>Certainly RMF welcomed people
to dispute his conclusions. Why are "ketannim" <span style=""> </span>- instead of "gedolim" <span style=""> </span>opposed to this?</li></ol><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: -1.25in;">Re: Rackman and Agunos</li>
<ol style="margin-top: 0in;" start="1" type="a"><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: -1.25in;">See YD 98.<span style=""> </span>What
is the ONE CASE in SHAS and POSQIM that Meisi'ach Lefi Sumo is believed
on a D'orraiso level?.<span style=""> </span>[note, it
sure ain't issur v'heter!]</li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: -1.25in;">Given Hazal's disregard to rules of Kosher eidus,
does this set a precedent for disregarding OTHER principles in the same sugya?</li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: -1.25in;">Have I ever Personally endorsed R. E. Rackman's P'sak?</li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: -1.25in;">
HOW IS it specifically that RER"s shita is <span style=""> </span>mor eradical than what is often found in
Teshuvos nowadays? <span style=""> </span></li></ol><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: -1.25in;">Re: Algorithimics</li><ol style="margin-top: 0in;" start="1" type="a"><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: -1.25in;">
In which post did<span style="">
</span>I ever propose an algorithmic solution to p'sak/</li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: -1.25in;">Is this not a simple straw man to make me "wrong"
or IOW accuse Wolpoe of subscriping Alogithimics then attack that
position and totally ignore Wolpoe's actually stated points?</li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: -1.25in;">If Algorithmics is off-limits please describe the
techniques ascribed to:</li></ol></ol>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in -1.25in 0.0001pt 1.5in; text-indent: -1.5in;"><span style=""><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">
</span>i.<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">
</span></span><span dir="ltr">Rif [yes the Rif
followed VERY strict rules of p'sak]</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in -1.25in 0.0001pt 1.5in; text-indent: -1.5in;"><span style=""><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">
</span>ii.<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">
</span></span><span dir="ltr">SA [BD of Rif/Rambam/Rosh]</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in -1.25in 0.0001pt 1.5in; text-indent: -1.5in;"><span style=""><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">
</span>iii.<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">
</span></span><span dir="ltr">Rema [What's accept by consensus in
Asheknaz based upon a finited list of posqim]</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in -1.25in 0.0001pt 1.5in; text-indent: -1.5in;"><span style=""><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">
</span>iv.<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">
</span></span><span dir="ltr">SMA [viz. see Choshen Mishpat 25, we
always follow RIF except when Tsoafos Argues] </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in -1.25in 0.0001pt 1.5in; text-indent: -1.5in;"><span style=""><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">
</span>v.<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">
</span></span><span dir="ltr">Kitzur SA [BD of Chayei Adam, SA harav
and Derch hachai'm,]</span></p>
<ol style="margin-top: 0in;" start="4" type="1"><ol style="margin-top: 0in;" start="4" type="a"><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: -1.25in;">Search or scan the Major Posqim – Tur, BY, SA, Rema, MB
Ahs Etc,.</li></ol></ol>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in -1.25in 0.0001pt 1.5in; text-indent: -1.5in;"><span style=""><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">
</span>i.<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">
</span></span><span dir="ltr">Do they frequently <span style=""> </span>use terms as sniffim to build a case?<br>
OR</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in -1.25in 0.0001pt 1.5in; text-indent: -1.5in;"><span style=""><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">
</span>ii.<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">
</span></span><span dir="ltr">Do they use terms like Rov Posqim, Rov
Acahronim , Maskanas Haposqim etc.[e.g. see Maggid Mishneh Rambam Hilchos
Shabbas 5:1]</span></p>
<ol style="margin-top: 0in;" start="5" type="1"><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: -1.25in;">Re: eilu v'eilu</li><ol style="margin-top: 0in;" start="1" type="a"><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: -1.25in;">
Since both BS and BH are Ielu V'eilu then can we
apsken EITHER way<br>
OR</li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: -1.25in;">Does it simpley man that both are valid Torah in a
limud sense but p'saq is only ONE way</li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: -1.25in;">Can RE Racman therefore be a valid opinion EVEN if
rejected lema'aseh or is ho objectivlye worse then Beis Shammai. And if
so, do we have a bas Kol to Says so</li></ol><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: -1.25in;">Re: Acceptablity</li><ol style="margin-top: 0in;" start="1" type="a"><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: -1.25in;">
IF posqim are right simply because they are popular
than how is that ANY different than schectherian Cahtolic Israel?</li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: -1.25in;">And if Accepted Psaq is ALWAYS right how could the
GRA ever oppose it? Or the Rav? Etc.</li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: -1.25in;">Does the majoprity of Posqim trump the majority of
amcha?<br>
OR</li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: -1.25in;"><span style=""> </span>Vice versa</li></ol><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: -1.25in;">Re: Attacking certain O Teshuvos</li><ol style="margin-top: 0in;" start="1" type="a">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: -1.25in;">Do you think that cricisizing O teshuvos that lack
Obejctivity a DEFENSE of C teshbuvos<br>
OR</li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: -1.25in;">Do you think that given that C teshuvos are Flawed,
nevertheless some O teshuvos are equally flawed and so thy should ALSO be
criticized.<br>
OR</li></ol></ol>
<span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman";">Do you think all C teshuovs are ipso facto flawed and
all O TEshuvos are ipso facto wonderful! And that therefore we should attack a
C teshuvo even if it calls for decorum in Shul and defend an O teshuva even if
it leads to "krum "halachic priniciples, just because WHO says it? <span style=""> </span></span><br><br>. <br></div></div><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Kol Tuv / Best Regards,<br>RabbiRichWolpoe@Gmail.com<br>see: <a href="http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/</a>
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