<div dir="ltr"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 5:34 PM, Rich, Joel <<a href="mailto:JRich@sibson.com">JRich@sibson.com</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
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<p><font size="2" face="Arial">S"A O"C 132:2 - Rama says to say a kaddish after aleinu even where there is no chiyuv. Recently I was told by a friend that his Rav said this is lav davka and really meant the final kaddish which is now after shir shel yom. I vaguely remember hearing bshem R' YBS that the kaddish after aleinu is the "real" concluding kaddish (vs. kaddish shalem)<br>
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<br><font size="2" face="Arial"> what are the actual practices out there? Any other insights on the above?</font>
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<p><font size="2" face="Arial">KT<br>
Joel Rich<br>
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</div></blockquote></div>In Sepharad a mizmor is said BEFORE aleinu and a qaddish ysaom follows and Aleinu is a closing hymn w/o Qaddish<br><br>In Frnankfort, they say mizmorimg AFTER Aleinu but THERE WAS NO ALEINU KADDISH! This was changd when Breuer came to America.<br>
<br>In German communites when Arvis follows mincha directly there is NO Aleinu and NO Kaddish. this resembles Mussaph when it follows shacharis<br><br>In my shul we DID not do aleinu before Qabblas Sahbbos BUT I made an exceptin if someone had [j]yahrzeit on Friday, I then inserted Aleinu to enable a Kaddish. <br>
<br>All things considered, the Sephardic model to me is more logical. You say:<br><ol><li>kaddish tiskabal</li><li>A mizmor</li><li>Kaddish yason</li><li>Aleinu <br></li></ol>--And that is it. I am not sure of the Rema's Mesorah on thsi one,;it was not from Minhag Frankfort, although other communites might have been different <br>
<br>I hope this helps<br><br>Kol Tuv / Best Regards,<br>RabbiRichWolpoe@Gmail.com<br>see: <a href="http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/">http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/</a>
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