<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 11:33 AM, Micha Berger <<a href="mailto:micha@aishdas.org">micha@aishdas.org</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
The question I was exploring when I spun this thread off the original<br>
was<br>
1- Does TIDE necessitate Austritt, or are they two ideas emerging from<br>
the same mind?<br>
2- If Austritt is part of TIDE, what does that mean lemaaseh today for<br>
people who want to raise its banner? <br></blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Micha<br></blockquote><div> </div><div>
I was in the process of composing a short article on how AUSTRITT has driven out TIDE in every community that parctices - or better CLAIMED - to practice both.<br><br>Danny Frankel [son of KAJ Cantor Frankel] wrote a series of essays to the Beuer community. He made a pretty strong case that TIDE is permanent and Austritt as Hora'as Sha'as, but in general it's been tread the other way in every TIDE-Austritt community I know.<br>
<br>One chaver off-list confirmed this same trend in Western Europe.<br><br>TIDE is kinda like American third parties. While completely both are completely dead , they finluenced the survivors. For example, in the 1920's and 1930's English speaking Orthodox Rabbis were mostly Treif-Passul inthe USA nad HAD to found the RACE. Rembmer the Kitzur {R. S Ganzfried] considered the Neolog proposalsto have sermons in Hungarian a clear break with Orthodoxy. Today, virtually every yeshiva accepts English as Kosher language and some even permit college. I have often speculated whether Ner Israel permitted college because R. Neubereger was himself a Yekke. <br>
<br>Again, in Frankfort 1850 TIDE would nto have worked without Asutrit because the lines had not been drawn. Despite protests on theis list otherwise, very few people would construe interactoin of Modern O Rabbis with C or R Rabbis as any kind of endorsement of their lifestyle. <br>
<br>In 1968, I attend a Soveit Jewry rally in Downtown Hartford and I was appaled when a local C rabbi got up to spoke and prompty removed his kippah just before speaking. The fac t that Orthos were in solidarity with C clergy re: Soveit Jews did not dimnish my disdain for his outrageous public beahviour. I don't see how ANYONE would have construe me as a yeshiva bachur as in ANYWAY endorsing C rabbis just because we stod together re: Soviet Jewry. I find that argument specious - a canard if you will. And what is the big deal if a a C rabbi says a kappitel Tehillim at a UN rally.<br>
<br>One final note. When myu preedecessor, Rabbi Ralph Neuhaus [FWIW his father Leopold was abosolutely the last pre-Holocaust rabbi in Frankfort] passed awy the levaya was done vai Breuer's. Breuers' policy is not to share the podium at a levary with ANY other pseaker other than the Rav of the Kehillah. so despite the fact that I was teh hazzan at the shul and a musmach, and eventually named his suceesor for 15+ years, I could not speak at the levaya.<br>
Now is this TIDE or Austritt at work?<br></div></div><br clear="all">- <br>Kol Tuv / Best Regards,<br>RabbiRichWolpoe@Gmail.com<br>see: <a href="http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/">http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/</a>