<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 12:56 AM, Samuel Svarc <<a href="mailto:ssvarc@yeshivanet.com">ssvarc@yeshivanet.com</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
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As for the "possibility of cooperation on non-Torah matters", this is<br>
something that needs more detail to be answered intelligently. Oh' and TIDE<br>
doesn't recognize any "Non-Torah matters", as all of DE is part of the<br>
rubric on which Torah must be the master of.<br>
<div class="Ih2E3d"><br>
</div><br>
KT,<br>
MSS<br>
</blockquote></div><br><br>While the above might be 100% true it does not recognize a BIG ISSUE.<br><br>Austritt also did not recognize LOYAL Torah Jews who did not believe in Austritt.<br><br>I met a yekke from Frankfort who only found out about an entire Torah-Observant Community in his home town by going on vacation. He saw them learning Torah and Talmud whilst vacationing and was surprised - nay shocked - that these people were Kosher Observant Jews, too. He told me, he thought that was wrong plain and simple.<br>
<br>You can also see this in the Bio ofRav Breuer re: the dath of Rav Nobel of the Gemeinde Orthodox. No matter how you slicet, Austritt went beyond simply not co-operating with Jews who did not recognize Torah values, and it is highly debatable to say that TIDE was married not only to Austritt but Austritt against other Frum Jews.<br clear="all">
<br>Frankly, Frankfort might have needed this kind of strictness at one time. But Koheles has warned us that there is a time [and place] for everything. Even Rabbiner Hirsch never compelled other communities to follow his specific model [see his bio]. He left every decision to every community.<br>
<br>I would guess there is a common denominator. Virtually every Torah-True Jew will NOT recoginze non-Observant communities as legitimate alternatives. The issue is, is co-operating on certain matters a form of recognition. In the USA circa 2009, I highly doubt if Cong. Anshei Austritt were to take a bus to Washington with Cong. Anshei Reform in order to protest a matter of common cause that such an arrangement confers "recognition" of an alternatie Torah lifestyel, It is merely recognizing them as fellow Jews.<br>
<br>Now, it IS true that Rabbiner Hirsch felt that Reform was a new [non=Jewish] religion but the Agudah in the USA has protested that we are all people no matter what, which pretty sums it up. <br><br>So EVen RYBS subscribed to SOME sort of Austritt, and I would bet that Rav Breuer made SOME exemptions to Austritt in the USA. For exmample,the American Roedlehim Siddur used by KAJ was printed by The Hebrew Publishing Company. AISI, we can quibble on details...<br>
<br>-- <br>Kol Tuv / Best Regards,<br>RabbiRichWolpoe@Gmail.com<br>see: <a href="http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/">http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/</a>