<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 1:36 PM, Micha Berger <<a href="mailto:micha@aishdas.org">micha@aishdas.org</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
ng their one lunar-dated holiday to<br>
a day of the week as well.)<br>
<br>
This also explains why it took Hillel to pasqen what to do on Shabbos<br>
erev Pesach. For many years, the Saducees prevented a qiddush hachodesh<br>
that would allow erev Pesach on any day but Friday.<br>
<br><br>
<br>
Tir'u baTov!<br>
-Micha<br>
<font color="#888888"><br>
--<br>
Micha Berger <br></font></blockquote><div><br>See Teshuvos Harosh<br><br>The Gmara knows that rebbe fasted Erev Pesach but does not know the reason <br>The two hypotheses are:<br><ol><li>he was an istenis and needed to fast to gain an appetite</li>
<li>he was a bechor<br> </li></ol></div></div>Fregt the kasha - nu what about Shabbos Ereve Pesach?<br>If istinis he STILL might have fasted? If it was because of Bechor then for sure not.<br><br>IIRC [it's been a few years] Rosh says:<br>
Shabos Ereve Pesach is NOT frequent ienough to establish a minhag that be noticed.<br><br>This answers at least 3 interlocking points<br><ol><li>HIllel's dilemma</li><li>Why Rebbe's Talmiddim did not know WHY Rebbe Fasted</li>
<li>Why the time limit of Matza Ashira on [Shabbos or any] Erev Pesach is unclear.</li></ol>Tonight after Arbis I was talking with an author of a new siddur. I pointed out the Beis Yosef [and FWIW Elbogen] both point out that ato honen and ato honantanu are redundant and there is no reason to say both lines on motza'ei Shabbos. [the key redundancy is the verbs]<br>
<br>The Author was aware that indeed there was such a confusion. I countered that th reason this was never ironed out is that it is NEVER said out loud ONLY in the silent Amidah, and therefore there is no "proper" minhag as such because there is really no bona fide mimetic in place. You cannot say I heard my rebbe or the Shatz at Kehillas Infallible said it this way!<br>
<br>Similarly Shabbos Erev Pesach seems to slip through the cracks on several points. I cannot say for sure that the kevi'as hahodesh was influenced by Sadducees or not, but it would sure point AWAY from a Beis Din Hagaodl that was "ikkar TSBP" [Rambam Mamrim 1:1] IOW to say that kevi'us Hachodesh was out of the hands of the p'rushim in the era of the zuggos [as opposed to the era of Yochan Kohein Gadol].<br>
<br>Bottom line:<br>AISI the fact that Bnei Beseira forgot is no more unusual than the Talmiddim of Rebbe forgetting about the reason of his fasting.<br><br>-- <br>Kol Tuv / Best Regards,<br>RabbiRichWolpoe@Gmail.com<br>see: <a href="http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/">http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/</a>