<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 6:03 PM, <<a href="mailto:T613K@aol.com">T613K@aol.com</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
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<div>RRW wrote:
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<div>>>Of course Talmdiei Chachamim are different, but attributing to
them<br>infallibility is a sure way to EVENTUALLY cause them much
criticism.<<<br><br>>>>><br>No one attributes infallibility to
talmidei chachamim. "Papal" infallibility is not a Jewish
doctrine. However, there is an assumption that talmidei chachamim have a
better batting average than unlearned people.</div>
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<div><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" lang="0" size="2"><br><b>--Toby
Katz<br>=============<br></b><br></font></div></div></font></div></blockquote></div><br>Somewher in the Avodaharchives [about 10 years ago] I sued the same analogy, that "gedolim" are such because their batting average is higher. And gues what? My position was attacked! There IS a movment out there to make or to evolve a da'as torah model as tantamount to infallibility.<br>
<br>I questioned the Taz on davening late on Shavuos, and aChredii relative of mine started the usual frum argumetns of "who are YOU" to question the Taz?" Besides the fact that Yekkees do not follow this Taz at all t Magen Avraham disagress on the same point. <br>
<br>I turned around to my chareidi relative and said: "ahve you ever learned Yoreh dei'ah?'<br>He said "no". I then told him that it is conceiveable that the Gap between HIS learning and mine is greater than between MY learning and the Taz's and so who was HE to question my position?<br>
<br>Asdie from the merits merits of the points, I have never been "ranked out" for disagreeing with an Acharon before this latest era. We were taught in Yeshiva to not argue on Rishonim [generally], but Acharonim were fair game. But this is espeically so when you can marshal rayas to back yourself up.<br>
<br>What is really sad is that my arugin with the taz was seen as disrespecting the Taz. When we argued with rebbes in yeshiva it was not considered disrespect, it was not personal. Reish Lakish pikced uon Rabbi Yochanan a lot. THIS has changed. All of a sudden arguing with a Talmid Chacham is somehow "dangerous." Maybe at some yeshivos they were ALWAYS like this but my background at Ner Israel and YU was not like this. We felt free to question,shlug up nd siagree as long as we were within the bounds of decency. And we got heated.<br>
<br>I recall [and I've posted this before!] arguin with R. Yosef Weiss on a point. He asked a question I gave a teirutz. He said "too balebatish" I looked at the "boys in the back" [either Pri Megadim or maye Pri Chadhah] who said the same thing. I raised my hand, quoted it to him and he said "It's STILL too balebatish!" Good for him that he was consistent and stuck to his guns.<br>
<br>I don't beleive the fact that I argued doggedly that day was ever held against me. [my penmanship was a different story! --smile--] Nowadays.... I wonder if people still challenge their rebbes? ... . <br><br><br>
<br>Kol Tuv / Best Regards,<br>RabbiRichWolpoe@Gmail.com<br>see: <a href="http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/">http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/</a>