<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 7:44 AM, Prof. Levine <<a href="mailto:llevine@stevens.edu">llevine@stevens.edu</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>
<font size="3">Please see the article "Clapping and Dancing on
Shabbos" at
<a href="http://www.cckollel.org/html/parsha/vayikra/shemini5763.html" target="_blank">
http://www.cckollel.org/html/parsha/vayikra/shemini5763.html</a><br><br>
The author, <a name="119e7d56ed68c47a_rabbi2"></a>Rabbi Weinrib, learns full time in the
[Chicago Community] Kollel.<br><br>
<p>
Yitzchok Levine</p></font></div>
</blockquote><div><br><blockquote style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;" class="gmail_quote"><span style="font-family: Arial;">[As an aside R' Yerucham Levovitz [Daas Torah
Chaya Sora 24-3] offers a fabulous insight as to why we see
some of the decrees of Chazal as a bit farfetched. He explains
that unfortunately we do not fully appreciate the severity
of a sin and how detrimental it is to us. If we would only
realize how serious sins are, we would fully understand why
it was necessary to place so many fences around them. We can
compare it to a train approaching a busy thoroughfare. Before
it arrives, there are signs, flashing lights, and descending
gates, which are there well before the train arrives, and go
up only after there is no chance of any damage being done.
Since the consequences of being struck by a speeding train
are so severe, the more precautions there are, the better.
How much more so is a sin, which is so damaging to our body
and soul. The Sages in their infinite wisdom saw it as necessary
to place many safeguards around sin.] </span><br></blockquote></div></div><br>BUT<br>I heard a Rabbi who is a Phd explain this w/o all of the frumkeit implications<br><br>In places like Spain dances used to fabricate home-made castinets whilst dancing, it was the WAY they danced to make a rhythmic sound with a home-made instrument - while in France no one danced with castinest So Tsaofos indeed saw this G'zeira as irrelevant.<br>
<br>I am not familiar with R. Yerucham Levvovitz but my rebbe was R. Yerucham Gorleick and he warned us NOT to get caught up with "frum" torah. it is nice to make such platitudes about he spiirtuality re: a g'zeira, but it would be even better to get the facts and dynamics straight. Tio wit - since in Spanish-like societies any impomptu dance music brought about homemade instruments the g'zeria may have NEVER been far-fetched at all but or a REACH rather it was about people REACHING for something to bang. Ever notice people tapping on the table while singing zmiros? Some even do it [ON SHABBOS!] with cutlery. Or iow People have been using primiitve bongo drums for centuries. So tis gz'eira is about a very real issue of Tikkun Maneh. <br>
<br><blockquote style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;" class="gmail_quote"><span style="font-family: Arial;">Secondly, according to Tosafos would it also be permitted
to actually play musical instruments as well? The consensus
of the Poskim is that even according to Tosafos, only clapping
and dancing would be permitted, and not the playing of actual
instruments. [See Shut Shaar Ephraim 36 Eliyahu Raba O.H. 339-1
Biur Halacha ibid s.v. ulisspek]</span></blockquote><br> I agree that POSKIM make this hilluk. But if you reject the authority of Poskim and go back to the gmara for p'sak - then their read is into the din is only informational and not normative. C's view it just so, iow that the later poskim are not normative and are only suggesting a hilluk, but that the original takkana is after all one and the same. And although it MIGHT be true that Tsoafos would buy this hilluk - it is aftera all not provable! and so in the case of honoring Shabbos by a kumsitz the sfeik derabban bimkom mitzva is set aside. This would imply OTOH, playing instruments on Shabbos for entertainment and NOT as part of the service would indeed be assur even from a "C" level of Halachah!<br>
<br>===================================================================<br>Just a footnote. My friend from Amsterdam told me that at one time hakafos were permitted in Amsterdam but they reneged after a few generations of it being permited - because of the abuses of the Halachos against dancing on YT [with apologies to Rav Hai Gaon]<br>
<br>From what I see lately [having vacated the Heights circa 2006], I get the impression is that only Yekkes [and others of a like-mind] that take these Halachos seriously - while it seems others are willing to "play games" for some perceived "greater good".<br>
<br>[AFAIK re: NCSY a hora'as sho'oh was made by asking poskim.]<br><br>-- <br>Kol Tuv / Best Regards,<br>RabbiRichWolpoe@Gmail.com<br>see: <a href="http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/">http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/</a>