<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 1:11 PM, <<a href="mailto:T613K@aol.com">T613K@aol.com</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial;"><font color="#000000" face="Arial" size="2">
<div><div><font style="background-color: transparent;" color="#000000" face="Arial" size="2"><div><br>>>>>></div>
<div>Yet in the Torah world Talmud learning for girls is considered a radical,
politically motivated innovation, and we do not in practice see the same
correlation between advanced Talmudic learning and dikduk bemitzvos among women
that we see among men. </div></font></div></div></font></div></blockquote><div><br><br>YOu have answerd your obserfation! If ONLY radicals are permitted to learnr Talmud then ONLY RADICALS will draw Halcha from it<br>
<br>Once you mainstream more in-depth analyssi for nice BY girls then they will have more dikduk in mitzvos<br><br>Let me tell you the other side. Several BY girls ahve said to me that women have ONLY 3 mitzvos hallah, niddah, & hadlakas haneiros! <br>
<br>So you might be right on one level but ofostering am ha'arztus is not much of a trade off. My friend's duaghter is a math major in Columbia Law. She doesn't GET Talmud she is clueless, But her sister DOES. {the father is moderately yeshivish BTW] <br>
<br>It was different when women were uneducated but if they can tear apart a legal text the they can do Talmud , too. <br><br>What I have noticed with many [not all] women is that they chafe at Talmudic style argumentation. for them perhaps the Shulchan Aruch makes more sense<br>
-- <br>Kol Tuv / Best Regards,<br>RabbiRichWolpoe@Gmail.com<br>see: <a href="http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/">http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/</a><br><br><br><br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial;"><font color="#000000" face="Arial" size="2"><div><div><font style="background-color: transparent;" color="#000000" face="Arial" size="2"><div>Often it is just the opposite (see Hollywood FL for
one example) -- in the MO communities where women are more likely to have
learned at least some Talmud, there is visibly LESS tznius among the
women. If anything, the correlation goes the other way -- across the
spectrum, in the schools and communities where women do NOT learn Talmud, they
are far MORE likely to cover their hair, not wear shorts or sleeveless
dresses in public, and so on. Learning Talmud does not seem to have
the same positive effect on women in terms of increasing halachic observance and
yiras Shamayim that it has on men.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Having said all that I will add that my father did not hold that it is
always absolutely assur for a woman to learn Talmud (certainly there have been
individual great women in history who learned Gemara), but he did hold that this
should not be done on a community-wide basis as a general part of women's
education, as a matter both of halacha and of public policy.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I would suggest that it is more important to encourage young women to MARRY
talmidei chachamim than to BECOME talmidei chachamim. Men have a strong
tendency to live up to (or sometimes, sadly, down to) what is expected of them
by the women in their lives. This is why women have such a civilizing
influence on society.<br></div></font></div></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" lang="0" size="2"><b><br></b><br><b>--Toby
Katz<br>=============<br></b></font></div></font></div></blockquote></div><br>