<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 3:56 PM, Micha Berger <<a href="mailto:micha@aishdas.org">micha@aishdas.org</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
On Wed, May 07, 2008 at 10:39:56PM -0400, Richard Wolpoe wrote:<br>
: > #1 The Gra favored the book sources (at least for his own practice),<br>
<div class="Ih2E3d"><br>
: For the GRA himself this method had boundaries. For thothers the slippery<br>
: slope allows people to use that GRA to justify paskening new Halacha from<br>
: the Gmara. This is also attributed to the Rambam but in HIS time the Gmaar<br>
: was stil lrealtively NEW<br>
<br>
</div>But they didn't take that slippery slope. They realized he was sui<br>
generis. Yeish gevul.</blockquote><div><br>Who are tehe they<br>Zev SEro said SA harav is the same. Who says that list is exahastive<br>one Rav told me he accepts RYBS reads of the Rambam over those of Bet Yosef. is he right? <br>
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><br>
<br>
:> #2 Yekkes<br>
<div class="Ih2E3d">:<br>
</div>We're in agreement then.<br>
<br>
...<br>
:> Whereas Chassidum changed numerous practices to fit the<br>
<div class="Ih2E3d">:> Chassidic worldview.<br>
<br>
: This imho is dangerous. the hashkafa dictates the way to behave instead of<br>
: an objective read of the sources [mimetis are imho an alterante form of<br>
: source]<br>
<br>
</div>AISI, not so, as long as one is medaqdeiq that the hashkafah is used<br>
only to choose between options actually supportable through textual<br>
halachic process.<br>
</blockquote><div><br>So give me the sources for dancing on Shabbos against codified Mishna! You re contradicting yourself. This SHOULD be minhag shtus as per YOUR shita and Tsoafos therefore should be wrong here. and how about Sukkah on Shmini Atzeres?<br>
<br><br>And if you are clear that you are right and I am not then let the slippery slope being. YOU might be satisfied that his process will not be abused, and I say it is inherently fuzzy and quite abusable! <br><br> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><br><br><br>
CHaning how you weight options is different than changing the list of<br>
options. The accusation is that RER did both.<br>
</blockquote><div><br>Well if you follow BY and SA you will ssee that he winnowe dout MANY Rishonim and most nos'ei Keilim voiced thier objections and let the others to rest.<br><br>But when the GRA revived the RIF/RAmbam on Matzos he [imho] unwinnowed Rishonim back to the Talmud. That is my point of slippery slope. Even the kaf Hacayyim rejected the GRA purely on consensus [ont on the merits of the text]<br>
<br>But if you accept going back to Talmud... <br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><br>
: BTW at least TWO Rashi's I just learned in Kesubbos [daf 2: daf 3.] are<br>
<div class="Ih2E3d">: very clear implications taht afkin'u is about making a FLAWED GET work, not<br>
: about undoing kiddushin w/o a GET.<br>
<br>
</div>I posted about this in the past. All of the gemaras cases include<br>
either:<br>
1- anullment at the time of qidushin (which may not be hafkaah as much<br>
as hefqeir BD); or<br>
2- at the time of a flawed get.<br>
<br><div class="Ih2E3d"><br>
<br>
</div>I think that in a generation whose greatest battle is against mitzvos<br>
anashim meilumadah, we need to shift pesaq to whatever will increase<br>
passion in shemiras hamitzvos. We have plenty of diyuq, we need more<br>
"erev Shabbos Jews".</blockquote><div><br>So it if FEELS good it is OK? C's argue bring guitars to shul and get kabbalas Sahbbos to be more lively like kumsitz!<br><br>Maybe in a hora'as sho'ah NCSY permitted dancing on Shabbos, but your pardim opens a can of worms<br>
<br>Some say dtich Piyytim<br>One C rabbi [with Ortho Semicha] says if we ONLY ditch the minhag Ta'us of kittniyyos magically all Jews will observe passover somehow<br><br><br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>
<br>
Add to that that in our day, there is no dominant minhag avos to define<br>
a minhag hamaqom, we are in the beginning of a process of congealing new<br>
minhagei hamaqom in our new meqomos. </blockquote><div><br>I kinda accept that <br><br><br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
I therefore feel it's an appropriate<br>
time to give aggadah more weight than usual.
:-)BBii!<br>
-Micha<br>
<font color="#888888"><br>
--<br>
Micha Berger <br></font></blockquote><div> </div><div><br>Makes no sense to me. It makes a fuzzier situatoin evn FUZZIER and MORE subjective and substituting FRUMKEIT for EHRLICHKEIT We can now ply MORE games with texts and pasken by emotiosn w/o sources because it ulimtately leads to piety. this was the early Anti-nomian position of the Hassidim upon which the GRA put a herem!<br>
<br>AISI we live in a WESTERNIZED society in the USA. We should use more obejctive and stricter Yekke style analysis of sources and get Halcha from a more fiar-minded Centrist shvil Hazahav with less lieralism and reactionariyism.<br>
<br>Set up a fair BD. Kitzur SA did it we can, too. Rabbis today can eclectically do jsut bout anyting and call it halacah.<br><br>I know ther are at least 100 recipes for cholent, but imagine if you wanted a chocolate doughnut and it had 100 differnt recipes too! you could NEVER define it again!<br>
<br>AISI the SA/REMA simplified halacha by cutting off options and giving us a brand new start [I call it a synpoint for your database gurus out there] Now some of the no'sei keilim twek the SA/REMA but for the most part it stands up.<br>
<br>The Ben Ish Chai ante dto Lurianize Halachah by Rejecting Maran in favor of Arizal<br>Ashkenazim have come up with a whole new set of poskim in order to add MANY more non-Talmudic minhaggim to a very long list taht Rishonim had etc. I don't think adding more aggadah will do anything but increase the confusion .<br>
<br>ROY is attempting to REstore Maran BY to his pre-eminence. I am attempting to restore Rema/Levush and perhaps AhS [who is usually a Tradtionalist] to be the Ashkenazic alternative.<br><br>That said, I do agree that paskening w/o any grounding in Midrash and Agagadah is a VERY bad thing. I have started mini-doses of Tanna devai Eliyahu [great hizzuk for me] Pireki R. Elizeze [over my head at times] <br>
<br>I have done Avos, Shomenh Prakkim, and I BEH will be doing Avos Dr. Nassan and Derech Eretz etc. I started Tanhuma and put it down for a while because I could not keep up to the parsha of the week. I accepted Micha's premise that Aggdah is a necesary componet for being a well-rounded Yid. But I would be very cautious about applying it to the Halachic process. <br>
<br>For those of a more rational bent, I would suggest Rambam hilchos Dei'os, Teshuva, and Talmud Torah as good "mussar sefarim", too! Also Emes - Iyyov Misheli Tehillim. Mishlei gives me a lot of Musar.</div>
</div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Kol Tuv / Best Regards,<br>RabbiRichWolpoe@Gmail.com<br>see: <a href="http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/">http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/</a>