<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 11:06 AM, Eli Turkel <<a href="mailto:eliturkel@gmail.com">eliturkel@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
The criterai of Shas is "minhag avoseinu beyadeinu"<br>
If you use the borders of EY as a practical proxy for the original Talmudic<br>
norm then I woudl simply suggest revising that to a pragmatic use of the<br>
medina's borders.>><br>
<br>
There are several ways of learning the gemara.<br>
<br>
1. 1/2 days of yomtov depends on where the shelichim came literally.<br>
This seems to be the Rambam and the basis of the chumrot of the<br>
Brisker Rav and CI<br>
</blockquote><div><br>FWIW Rambam hoklds a gziera/Takkanah becasue he holds that today thre is no mah nafsahach for nolad on day nor for a conditional eruv Tavshillin<br><br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>
2. Depend on what people in bayit sheni did in that neighborhood.<br>
This is basically the shitah of the Chacham Tzvi and so one keeps 1<br>
day where they<br>
kept 1 day in bayit sheni and keeps 2 days where they kept 2 days then<br>
</blockquote><div><br>KI know the Chacham Zvi says this but I ahve been looking for the source. Anybody know which tehsuva [i hve TWO editiosn of Hacham Zvi and I still cannot find it!] <br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>
3. This is a new gezerah from chazal in the days of Abaye and Rava.<br>
The gezera distinguished between EY and chutz la-aretz and does not depend<br>
on what happened in that location in bayit sheni (ie not like #1 or #2) In fact<br>
some rishonim learn that the point was to stress the importance and<br>
difference of EY<br>
even in galut days.<br>
This seems to be the position of SA and many modern poskim.<br>
According to this viewpoint one has to define what is EY and what is<br>
not. There does<br>
not seem to be any halachic reason to identify with the modern borders of Israel<br>
any more than the borders of EY for terumot and maaserot or shemitta<br>
do not coincide<br>
with those of the modern state<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
<font color="#888888">Eli Turkel<br>
</font></blockquote></div><br>re: #3 I do see your point. It stil l makes sense to me to redraw the borders for this aspect since I definitely hold of the minhag avos aspect -although Rambam rejects this<br><br clear="all">
<br>-- <br>Kol Tuv / Best Regards,<br>RabbiRichWolpoe@Gmail.com<br>see: <a href="http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/">http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/</a>