<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 1:32 AM, <<a href="mailto:T613K@aol.com">T613K@aol.com</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
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<div><font style="background-color: transparent;" color="#000000" face="Arial" size="2">From: "Richard Wolpoe" <<a href="mailto:rabbirichwolpoe@gmail.com" target="_blank">rabbirichwolpoe@gmail.com</a>></font></div>
<div><font style="background-color: transparent;" color="#000000" face="Arial" size="2">As for austritt, I don't see what
the Holocaust has to do with it or why it would change anyone's mind on that
subject. Reform and Conservative remain outside of halacha and nothing the
Germans did changes that. I've heard people say, very emotionally, "How
can you not consider me Jewish? Hitler would have killed me!" --
because of a Jewish grandparent, say. Nevertheless, if the person is not
Jewish, he's not Jewish, and if something is not halachic, it's not
halachic. Hitler is not our posek. </font></div>
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<div><font style="background-color: transparent;" color="#000000" face="Arial" size="2">The famous psak forbidding joint membership in a body that includes
Orthodox and non-Orthodox clergy was issued after the Holocaust
IIRC.<br></font></div></div></div></font></div>
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<div><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" lang="0" size="2"><b><br></b><br><b>--Toby
Katz<br>=============</b></font><br></div></blockquote></div><br><br>This si not a matter of WHY but of historical facts. During the Nazi era allJewish communities co-operated [it could be construed as hor'as hsa'ah but read on before jumping to any conclusions] <br>
<br>If you beleive that God works through history this WHAT trumps your Why. Maybe HKBH was NOT pleased with Austritt and gave a draconian reason why.<br><br>Think of Austrit in the time of Mordechia and Esther. We know that there were non-frum poeple then, too but Haman did more than all of the nev'i'im put together<br>
<br>Do you think Rabbiner Hirsch would have protested that Esther was asking non-frum Jews to join in a fast with frum Jews? {as weknow any ta'anis tzibbur w/o ersha'im is not a tzibbur!] <br><br>It is also interesting how ideology trumps reality [emess?] we really think that since ideology was X so the facts on the ground MUST have matched. Kind of like Assuming that Yaa'kov Avinu MUST have worn a Yarmulka or Shtreiml [take your pick]<br>
<br>Those Ortho Groups in the USA that voted for co-operation with non-Ortho's did so during the post Holocaust universe. And since RYBS demadned that we co-operate ONLY klapei Hutz the facts on the ground were quite conducive to such a decision.<br>
<br><br><br>Although Rav Aharon Kotler Z"L was oposed to co-operation he never shut out the Rav. In fact his grandson assured me that he consulted the Rav on any major communal decision. I guess this is not politcally correct to publicize that RAK might have actually considered the Rav's input as worthy but you CAN se pictures of them sharing the dais at Hinuch Atzma'i dinners.<br>
<br>As an aside:<br><br>Reminds me of Rav Dovid Lifshutz Z"L at MO functions he was a Rosh Yeshiva at YU at Agudah Fucntions he was the Suvalker Rav. Or tAr RMF's levaya 3 major YU figures were all introduce w/o references to YU itself [quite a feat I might add [FWIW the 3 were 2 R. Tendlers and R. Nissan Aleprt Z"L] <br>
<br> <br><br>-- <br>Kol Tuv / Best Regards,<br>RabbiRichWolpoe@Gmail.com<br>see: <a href="http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/">http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/</a>