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<DIV>
<DIV>I had written:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>"This is
a pretty good description of how da'as Torah works, if anyone is
<BR>still wondering about the definition of that term. The
"personal" opinions of a <BR>big talmid chacham are never just
personal, and tend to gain wide acceptance <BR>among those who
respect him and who accept his authority. Some of those
who <BR>move in YU circles seem to be allergic to the very idea of "da'as
Torah" but <BR>whether they use the term or not, that's what
they're following when they <BR>accede to the psak of a Torah
scholar whom they respect and whose wisdom they <BR>acknowledge to
be greater than their own. " [--TK]
<DIV><BR class=webkit-block-placeholder></DIV></FONT>
<DIV><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><FONT size=2>To which RRW wrote:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid">
<DIV><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial
color=#000000><FONT class=Apple-style-span><FONT size=2>>>So are you
saying a big talmid chochom can never be
wrong?<<</FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>>>>>>></DIV>
<DIV>This is a very common misconception of what da'as Torah means. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Right wing Orthodox (RWO) -- the people who tend to actually believe that
there is such a thing as "da'as Torah" -- never think that their rabbanim,
poskim and gedolim are infallible. It is only people outside the RWO orbit
who mistakenly imagine that RWO people believe in something like papal
infallibility. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The true meaning of da'as Torah, as understood by the RWO Jews who actually
believe in it, is that the more pious and the greater a talmid chacham is, the
more likely it is that he will give you good advice in your personal life and
that he will give Klal Yisrael good advice on a communal level. Naturally
people in need of good advice and counseling will seek out those who are wiser
than themselves, but no one imagines that a gadol can 'never' be wrong.
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>At times, it is obvious in retrospect that a rav or rebbe who was consulted
on some matter must have had some spark of ruach hakodesh, some Divine guidance
in the words that came out of his mouth, when one sees the sometimes amazing
prescience of what some Torah leaders have said, and how things worked out in
the end. At other times -- less often -- it is clear in retrospect that a
given gadol made an error in judgment and did not give the best advice.
Nevertheless the statistical odds are that the more Torah a person knows -- and
the more he lives according to the dictates of the Torah -- the wiser he will be
in those areas that are not directly addressed in the Shulchan Aruch.
Those talmidim of RYBS who followed his psak regarding WTG for instance, were
following da'as Torah.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>One other thing I would like to say about da'as Torah is that sometimes it
is clear in retrospect that the Hashgacha deliberately withheld knowledge or
ruach hakodesh from gedolim in a certain time, because "gezeira hee
milfanai." But such cases are extremely rare in history.</DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Da'as Torah means that a person who is great in Torah has a feel for what
the Torah would want, even in circumstances that are not explicitly
addressed in the halachic literature. It does not mean, and has never been
understood to mean, that tzaddikim are infallible and can never err. I
hope that I have sufficiently explained it so that this particular
misunderstanding -- which has been expressed so many times here on Avodah --
will not arise again in these pages. Even Moshe Rabbeinu was not
infallible.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>BTW I have noticed that the people who are quick to point out that gedolim
can be wrong, are the people least likely to consult a rav or posek when issues
arise needing Torah wisdom. This is a grave mistake. In Pirkei Avos
it says "Asei lecha rav." Even a person who is a big T'C himself sometimes
needs to consult another T'C about certain matters. Condescension towards
rabbanim and poskim in general ("well they're not infallibe you know") leads to
a lessening of Yiras Shomayim.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT lang=0 face=Arial color=#0000ff FAMILY="SANSSERIF"
PTSIZE="10"><B><BR></B><BR><B>--Toby
Katz<BR>=============<BR></B><BR></FONT></DIV></FONT><BR><BR><BR><DIV><FONT style="color: black; font: normal 10pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF;"><HR style="MARGIN-TOP: 10px">It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on <A title="http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp00300000002850" href="http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp00300000002850" target="_blank">AOL Money & Finance</A>.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>