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<DIV>In Avodah Digest, Vol 25, Issue 107 dated 3/24/2008 "Michael Makovi"
<mikewinddale@gmail.com><BR>writes:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>>>Also, though, I would argue that even according to an pure
austritt<BR>position like RSRH, today's R clergy are not like those of his
day. In<BR>his day, the R clergy KNEW what they were doing, knew they
were<BR>deviating from classical Judaism - there was NO ignorance. But
today's<BR>R/C clergy are as ignorant and misguided as their laity - not in
terms<BR>of textual knowledge, but rather in terms of
weltanschauung.<BR><BR>Now, RSRH would probably still insist that an Orthodox
congregation<BR>cannot belong to an R umbrella organization, if the O's
membership is<BR>lending legitimacy or material assistance to any R
activities, such as<BR>publishing R educational materials or funding HUC - an
in fact, I<BR>cannot imagine most supporting such an O membership of such an
R<BR>organization. But if the organization is doing nonsectarian
activities<BR>that are not inimical to the goals of O, or if the organization
is<BR>dialog exclusively, etc., then I would say that perhaps even
RSRH<BR>would permit working together. His austritt was because O
membership<BR>aided the R in their efforts, and because R was not TsN, but
since<BR>today R certainly is TsN (IMHO), and if the organization is
not<BR>inimical to anything O, then perhaps RSRH would permit.<BR><BR>Rabbi
Moshe Shmuel Glasner in haTzionut b'Ohr haEmuna argues that<BR>austritt is
perfect for when O and R oppose each other, but when they<BR>share a common
goal, austritt is out of place. His example of a common<BR>goal is Zionism
<BR>Mikha'el Makovi<BR><BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>>>>>></DIV>
<DIV>I am certain that RSRH would NOT permit Orthodox participation in a
common body with R and C organizations, although he would permit Orthodox
representatives to run for election to governmental bodies like the
Knesset. If there were some kind of joint rabbinate, say, for conversion,
or even for charitable disbursements, involving R, C and O clergy together in
one body, he would most certainly forbid it. If there were a
non-sectarian, secular organization in which Jews as individuals acted together
for some purpose -- such as AIPAC -- then he would permit individuals to
participate. But a body like the World Jewish Congress would be a
no-no. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The fact that most R/C rabbis today are tinokos shenishbu is completely
irrelevant to the question of holding joint activities with them. They are
still sinners, even if not intentionally, and what they teach is pure kefirah.
Furthermore, many or most of them consciously and openly oppose Orthodoxy in
their teaching and preaching -- they are not neutral. They may not go to
Gehenom for what they do -- because of their tinok shenishba status -- but their
actions are nevertheless objectively evil and anti-Torah, even if their
intentions are not evil and they are sincere in their beliefs.</DIV>
<DIV><FONT lang=0 face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"
PTSIZE="10"><B><BR></B><BR><B>--Toby
Katz<BR>=============<BR></B><BR></FONT></DIV></FONT><BR><BR><BR><DIV><FONT style="color: black; font: normal 10pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF;"><HR style="MARGIN-TOP: 10px">Planning your summer road trip? Check out <A title="http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016" href="http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016" target="_blank">AOL Travel Guides</A>.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>