<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 8:00 AM, <a href="mailto:kennethgmiller@juno.com">kennethgmiller@juno.com</a> <<a href="mailto:kennethgmiller@juno.com">kennethgmiller@juno.com</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div class="Ih2E3d">R' Richard Wolpoe wrote:<br>
> I have heard besheim RYBS that only music that caused one<br>
> to get up and dance [lich'ora even if one did not actually<br>
> dance!] was the kind of music that is assur. This dovetails<br>
> well with what I'm saying. I would suspect that our esteemed<br>
> moderator might also concur with this chiluk<br>
<br>
</div>Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach would also concur with it.<br>
<br>
>From Halichos Shlomo on Bein Hametzarim 14:3 - "Hashira shenohagin bah issur biymei bein hametzarim, eina ela misug hashirim ham'orarim l'rikud. = The song which we avoid during the three weeks is only of the type which inspires one to dance."<br>
<br><br>
Akiva Miller</blockquote></div><br><br>If you read Rishonim and omit Acharonim the issurim on Sefirah seem limitted to:<br><br><ol><li>Taspores</li><li>nissu'in</li><li>some kind of mleacha [shabasos tihyena]</li>
</ol>IMHO [and this dovetails with Ramban] Seifrah is a quasi hulo shel mo'ed - and as a result all of the above are assur. there is also "mitztzas aveilus"<br> <br>AISI A big humra machine evolved. Wel since nissu'in is assur what about eirusin? So they assered issurin with dancing. all the other musical based issurin are history.<br>
<br><blockquote style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;" class="gmail_quote"><br>
The flipside of this is that RYBS would assur parties during omer or<br>
the three weeks even without music.<br>
<br>
Tir'u baTov!<br>
-Micha</blockquote><br>WADR to RYBS this is sourcesless in Rishonim. The point of sefirah is MITkTZAS aveilus. the Rav tried to morph it into FULL_SCALE aveilus. See both Tur and KItsar SA for the list of miktzas<br>
<br>ALSO imho the Rav took simcha meireiu's to a new level. The Gmara in Mo'ed Kattan is clearly refering to reciprocal meals and is NOT referring to getting together with friends. I have no clue how the Rav morphed the defintion of simcha meirei'us outside of the Talmudic parameters - especally regarding Sefira whose aveilus is a post-Talmudic minhag<br>
<br>While it is TRUE that the deaths of R.Akiva's talmidim is recorded in the Talmud, the first mention of any aveilus FOR US is strictly Ga'onic! [After al - lthe Rav is the one who reejcted Ga'onic innovations wrt additions to Tefillah [except for Zhcreinu leahcyyim etc.]] <br>
I have heard that the Rav cited call detakin Rabbana ke'in d'orraisso tiknu<br>BUT<br><ol><li>Aveilus in genral is ONLY miderabbana to begin with!</li><li>Aveilus during Sefirah is ONLY a minhag of the Ga'nim </li>
</ol>Ignoring #2 is imho acharonistic revisionism making a Ga'onic principle into a Talmudic one. [Could be applicable to 2 vs.3 matzos on Yom Tov where lechem mishna on YT is ONLY Ga'nic as opposed to Sahbbos which is Talmudic. But the Rosh might hold that Ga'onic is higher leve -tantamount to Talmudl. The GRA obviously did NOT!].<br>
<br>================================================================<br><br>The only reason for Ashkenazim to be super-strict might be the catastrophes of the Crusades. But there is scant evidence that Rishonim went as far as acharonim.<br>
<br>And aderabba, any pro-Zionist would see 5 Iyyar and and Yom yersuhalayyim as factors mitigating for a LESSENING of Sefirah's aveilus in recent history. or iow, after the Crusades heavy Aveilus was most approriate. Bizman hazeh, [assuiming you are Zionistically inclined it is a time for ge'ulah.]<br>
<br>I recall members of the Breuer kehillah shocked by wholescale celebration on 5 Iyyar at YU. From the Breuer persepctive,Sefirah was being violated [although by ZERO of the Rishonic models] From the YU model, Sefirah had been mitigated by a tremendous yeshuah and the MINHAG of Aveilus would be suspended for that day.<br>
<br>Parentheticaly - I am of the school to treat 5 iyyar [and yom yersulayyim] just like lag ba'omer. No hallel, no tachanun. <br><br>However, re: my understanding of the Rishonic model, I have a real problem having weddings at all during Seifrah if it is indeed a quasi hulo shel mo'ed. [taspores would have slightly more wiggle room]<br>
<br><br>-- <br>Kol Tuv / Best Regards,<br>RabbiRichWolpoe@Gmail.com<br>see: <a href="http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/">http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/</a>