<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 8:28 AM, Michael Makovi <<a href="mailto:mikewinddale@gmail.com">mikewinddale@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div class="Ih2E3d">> Example, AFAIK ZERO Reishonim prohibit women reading for Megillah onbehalf<br>
> of other woemn and Rashi/Rambam EVEn permit it for me. Many acharonim<br>
> changed this [see Beis Yosef and Magen Avrahm]<br>
</div><div class="Ih2E3d">> Kol Tuv / Best Regards,<br>
> <a href="mailto:RabbiRichWolpoe@Gmail.com">RabbiRichWolpoe@Gmail.com</a><br>
<br>
</div>Rabbi Henkin has an interesting article on this in Equality Lost (and<br>
Bnei Banim). I forget all the details, but he says something about how<br>
there are three shitot:<br>
1) Women = men, b'klal</blockquote><div><br>This is an explicit Rashi and Tosafos <br><br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>
2) Women have mitzvah to hear, and a lesser obligation than men to<br>
read. So women can read for each other, but not for men.<br>
3) Women have only obligation to hear, and they cannot read even for other women<br>
<br>
I think number 3 is Tosefta, either 1 or 2 is the Talmud, and I forget<br>
what the other one is.</blockquote><div><br>The Beis Yosef having seen Tosafos's defense of BEHAG frames R. Henkin's #3 as #2. AFAIK NO RISHON equates the Tosefta with #2 and AFAIK the Magen Avrham is the first to make #3 the peshat in BEHAG/Tosefta as normative.<br>
<br>Surprisingly, RYDS seems to back up this MGA over the Rambam/RAshi/Tosafos/BY etc. Quite an anomaly to my mind. <br><br>This is the problem of a systme that says "IQ" trumps. Since RYDS has a higher IQ...therefore we should ignore Halachic history and toss out Rishonim and start from scratch! <br>
<br>BTW, the BY [and FWIW Rema] tried to get away from an ego-centric system to an objective survey the poskim methodology. Both wer too humble to rule solely on the basis of their own "gefeel" and relied upon precedent..<br>
<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><br>
<br>
So, Rabbi Henkin brings many sources (Rishonim on 1, Gaonim on 2, if I<br>
remember correctly). Then, he brings Tosafot and the Rosh who hold<br>
number 2. But they were misunderstood by many (including Korban<br>
Netanel and Mishna Berurah) to hold 3, but Tosafot haRosh (unavailabe<br>
to KN and MB) clearly and undoubtedly holds 2, so women can most<br>
definitely read for each other.<br>
<br>
A primary issue for some, between 2 and 3, was kavod tzibur....<br></blockquote><div><blockquote style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;" class="gmail_quote">
Mikha'el Makovi <br></blockquote></div><div><br>Just my opinion but WADR some people come up with Halachic kullos from left field and this seems to be from Right Field! Did Rashi/Tosafos/Rambam ALL overlook this issue?<br>
And what about Beis Yosef who frames it as hakkol moddim that #2 is a minimum!<br></div></div><br>I don't like Radical shifts in Halchah from Left or Right because I see Halacha as based upon a precedent type systems. I also see an issue of zilzulei devei dina. <br>
<br>Now for academic purposes I don't have an issue if a sincere effort to read BEHAG as 3 is supported by really good reason. But I would not overturn BY on this basis.<br clear="all"> <br>Lemme give you an example of a radical read:<br>
Hilchesa ysavui ysavinan mevorchai lo mvarchinan [sp]<br><br>Traditional Read: one MUST sit in the Sukkah on Sehmin ATzeres in the Golah BUT w/o a bracha.<br>Radical Read: one MAY sit in the sukka on Shmini Atzeres [optional] but certainly a bracha is assur [probably due to bal tosef]<br>
<br>This argument MIGHT be used [and has been used] to defend a minhag of not sitting in the sukkah on ShAtz, but to introduce this as a brand new model and run with it is IMHO radical shinuy.<br><br>Re-reading the Behag to be #3 after ALL Rishonim see the possible positions as between #1 and #2 to me is a shinuy.<br>
<br><br>-- <br><br>Kol Tuv / Best Regards,<br><a href="mailto:RabbiRichWolpoe@Gmail.com">RabbiRichWolpoe@Gmail.com</a><br>see: <a href="http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/">http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/</a>