<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 4:36 PM, Meir Shinnar <<a href="mailto:chidekel@gmail.com">chidekel@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
RMB<br>
> REB even realized his argument was specious, which is why he had to<br>
> mention the metahalachic concept of "eis la'asos" -- this must be done<br>
> despite it violating the normal rules. I fail to see how this is an<br>
> eis la'asos, as no one's relationship to Hashem is saved through it,<br>
> "just" unity would.<br>
<br>
I don't have the time now to get into the debate. However, the above<br>
paragraph summarizes a major problem and difference in perspective.<br>
<br>
The argument that the unity of klal yisrael does not affect one's<br>
relationship to hashem is, to my mind, quite startling - although,<br>
perhaps, reflective on an approach emphasizing the individual rather<br>
than communal perfection. <font color="#888888"></font></blockquote><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><font color="#888888">Meir Shinnar<br>
</font></blockquote></div><br><br>Psycho-thearapy was supposed to help people be more socialyl functional human beings. At times it emphasizees a narcisstic self-reflection<br><br>Mussar -or at least basd mussar - falls preyto the same problem<br>
The Torah was given to effect a mamleches kohanim and Goy Kaddosh by HKBH's own words and I am locked into an argument that Torah is about self-prefection, an attidue probably first seriously considered by RY Salnter or his followers. <br>
<br>I have no qualms with RYS per se, jus the abuse of mussa to twist the centrality of the kehal, khilla, Am, society etc. The klal is a ubiquitous theme in Yekke hashkafa in genral and in Hirsch in Particualr [see 19 letters!] but since it is not "politically correct" in America and in the mussar movement to consider the peoplehood over the individual so it gets white-washed<br>
<br>Now Vayikra CERTAINLY can be understood as suggsting that the nassi, the kohen Gadol and the Sanhedrin should be into self-prefection, but that is obviously due to their high office. The idea that the "amcha" should be concerned with self-perfection over serving the klal is imho not a Jewish hashkafa at all, more like Teddy Roosevelt's rugged individualism or some monastic ideal associated with other religions who praise self-denial.<br>
<br>-- <br>Kol Tuv / Best Regards,<br><a href="mailto:RabbiRichWolpoe@Gmail.com">RabbiRichWolpoe@Gmail.com</a><br>see: <a href="http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/">http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/</a>