<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 7:52 AM, <<a href="mailto:T613K@aol.com">T613K@aol.com</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
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<div>In Avodah Digest, Vol 24, Issue 101 dated 12/20/2007 R' Michael Elzufon
<<a href="mailto:Michael@arnon.co.il" target="_blank">Michael@arnon.co.il</a>><br>writes:</div>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid blue; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px;"><font style="background-color: transparent;" color="#000000" face="Arial" size="2">>>What is the source for the claim that Ashkenazi practice came
from Eretz<br>Israel and Sephardi practice came from Bavel? My
impression has always<br>been the opposite. <<</font></blockquote></div></font>
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<div>>>>>></div>
<div>I'm coming back to an issue that was raised a couple of months ago, because
I found something relevant in Berel Wein's book *Herald of Destiny: The Story of
the Jews in the Medieval Era 750-1650*</div>
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<div>He writes: "The reason there emerged, in the early Middle Ages, two
distinct ethnic and cultural groupings, Sephardic and Ashkenazic, is a subject
of much scholarly conjecture and controversy." (pg. 78)</div>
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<div>Then he has the following footnote, which I quote in full:</div>
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<div>==begin quote==</div>
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<div>See, for example, H.J. Zimmels, /Ashkenazim and Sephardim/, (London, 1958),
pp.1-10, for a review of this question. Regarding the geographical
origins that provided the basis for the initial split of the people into two
groupings, there are also various theories. Several maintain that the
Sephardim were mainly Babylonian Jews who brought their customs to Europe, while
the Ashkenazim were descendants of Palestinian Jews. Other theories
reverse these antecedents, making the original Ashkenazim Babylonian and the
Sephardim Palestinian. Still others identify the Sephardim as descendants
of Jews from Jerusalem and southern Palestine, and the Ashkenazim as descendants
of Jews from northern Palestine. In short, we can say with certainty the
precise origins of the distinct groupings are uncertain.</div>
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<div>==end quote==</div>
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<div>I think that probably ends the whole subject here on Avodah, although if
any of our distinguished chaverim have further insights into this question I'd
be most interested to hear them.</div>
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<div><font color="#000000" face="Arial" size="2"><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" lang="0" size="2"><br><b>--Toby
Katz<br>=============</b></font></font></div></font></div></blockquote><div><br>Tne answer is simple:<br>Ashekanzic Liturgy kept Kallir from Israel and Meshulam Ben Kalonymos of Lucca Italy. IT is fairly well-established fact that Ashkenaz ,looked up to Italy and Italy to Israel in terms of Minhaggim etc.<br>
<br>Sephardim opposed Piyyutim in Yotzros. Ashkeanzim reveled in it. This can ONLY be becasue they favored Minhag EY over Bavel. <br><br>Ibn Ezra smashed Kallir. Tosafos made him into a Tanna. The rest is history!<br></div>
</div><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Kol Tuv / Best Regards,<br><a href="mailto:RabbiRichWolpoe@Gmail.com">RabbiRichWolpoe@Gmail.com</a><br>see: <a href="http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/">http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/</a>