<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 7:53 PM, Rich, Joel <<a href="mailto:JRich@sibson.com">JRich@sibson.com</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
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<div><br><br><font face="Arial"><font size="2">(We have Rishonim saying that other
Rishonim are wrong. No chidush. We have Achronim saying that a Rishon is wrong
if it's to come to defend and explain the intent of a different Rishon. No
chidush there either. But saying a Rishon is wrong is a big deal. <span><font color="#0000ff"> </font></span></font></font></div>
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<div><font face="Arial"><font size="2"><span><font color="#0000ff">FWIW AIUI this is something "we" have taken upon ourselves,
not something inherent in the system.</font></span></font></font></div>
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<div><font face="Arial"><font size="2"><span><font color="#0000ff">KT<br>Joel
Rich</font> </span></font></font></div></font></font></div><br><br><table style="color: black;" bgcolor="white"><tbody><tr><td><br></td></tr></tbody></table></blockquote></div><br>It seems that as the generations grow 'smaller" niskatnu hadoros" there is a tendency to make our "gedolim" more and more infallible.<br>
<br>Onoe thing HAS changed over the doros. USUALLy ahcaronim have been called upon to justify their decisions, whereas Rishonim were more terse and often did not bother justifying a deicsion. <br><br>It is interesting that Rashi rarely explains WHY he gives a certain peshat. He jsut does. Rambam, too.<br>
<br>While Tosafos bends over backwards [most of the time] to try and PROVE his point. Many find Tosafos pilpulistic as a result. I find it refreshing to see someone wrestling with the issue and not just coming down with a decision. <br>
<br>While the Tur is terse, he gives most sides to the issue. In that sense he is more Mishnaic than the Rambam who gives his side and his side only.<br><br>The Beis Yosef works hard at arriving at a conclusion. The Shulchan Aruch does not. It is a problem today in tht we learn Shulchan Aruch w/o Tur/BY first. SA [and evn Rema] come across as "pontificating" but they are not because they have justified themselves [for the most part] in earlier works.<br>
<br>========================================================================<br><br>As for the other thread involving challenging Rishonim etc. there are rules/guidelines as to how to do this. Choshen Mishpat 25 is a starter. <br>
<br>BEH I will be posting on the Aruch hashulchna and Minhag, soon based upon 3 statements in Hilchos Megillah <br><br>There is a LOT of confusion about Halachic methodology out there. And there are different schools of thought as to how it works. And there is further confusion because people conflate those schools at times. <br>
<br>The Rambam et. al. seem to be pretty sure that NO poseik after the Gemara is absolute [aside perhaps for local g'zeiros that is in the purview of a mora d'asra]. According to that school ANY post Talmudic source is disputable and debatable. That is how the Rambam often ignored many Ga'onic decisions and precedents, although the Yad is replete with exapmles of perpetuating Ga'onic decisions, too.<br>
<br>Ashkenazic P'sak IS different. But remember, the midget on the shouldder of giants model. And that is the point. If I question RMF or Mishna Brura, it is NOT to say I KNOW better, it is to say that I have seen other approaches that make more sens to me - and often they will make more sense to any objective person who is not blinded by the name of the author. {The WHAT would turmp the WHO for an open-minded person - The WHO trumps the What for a person who judges books by their covers.] Caveat, you cannot completely ignroe the WHO and I certainly do not either.<br>
<br>Illustration: I usually follow Rema, When it coems to ta'ruvos, the Rema states Basar sehma azlinan. But if is clear that t'am k'ikkar is usueless in that defintion. And so the Shach is massig on the Rema with raya bruros. Chochmas Adam et. al follow Shach w/o a question. This Rema has a definite Tiyuvta - and so we don't follow it [except where bittul is by 100:1, 200:1 etc. as with the noted exceptions by Shach himself. So Rema is NOT 100% wrong...]<br>
<br>That is how the game is played. The Shach "shlugs up " Rema [on that matter]. Anyone who does what the Shach does can do it. You need NOT be a gadol, but you MUST do your homework. and if you do it well, you can answer the possible counter questions to your thesis. This Shach has survived "peer review."<br>
<br>There are more sublte cases. Shach nad Taz argue why salt from slating meat is considered 100% unkosehr as oppsed to the amount absorbed<br><br>Taz- Chaticha na'asev neveilha<br>Shach- we do not know how much is absorbed.<br>
<br>The Taz is LOGICALLY wrong! Why? Becasue the mechabeir does NOT hold from Chaticha na'aseh neveilha besh'ar issurim. It rpovieds a contradiction. The Shach is consistent with other examples of measuring by the max [e.g. kachel] You do no have to be a gdoal to se teh sheverkeit in this Taz. It is apparent and manyacharnim have noted it. This does not mena the Taz is not a Gadol or tht he is ALWAYS wrong. But kabedihu vechashdeihu anyway. You cannot accept the Taz w/o analysis. That is why they print the Shach on the YD on the other side. <br>
<br>Same for Rashi and Tsoafos<br><br>And that is EVEN true fro Bavli. There is a yerushalmi tht sometimes come up with other teirutzim.<br><br>and even the Mishna has a Tosefta, and we sometimes pasken like the Tosefta over the Mishna [e.g. by havdlah the machlokes Beish HShammai and Beis Hillel we pasken like R. Yehudah in the Tosefta over R. Meir in the mishneh as per R. Yochanna in Arvei Pesachim - based upon nahagu ha'am!]<br>
<br>KT<br><br><br><br> <br><br><br>-- <br>Kol Tuv / Best Regards,<br><a href="mailto:RabbiRichWolpoe@Gmail.com">RabbiRichWolpoe@Gmail.com</a><br>see: <a href="http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/">http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/</a>