Micha,<br> Why do you say that Simcha "has a codified non-subjective definition?" Shaagat Aryeh (I think around siman 65, though I'm not sure about that) has an interesting discussion of exactly what the mitzvah of simchat Yom Tov is, specifically in the context of a refutation of the contention of Tosfot (Moed Katan 13b) that the mitzvah of simcha, post-Mikdash, is d'rabanan. It is a long piece, and not entirely compelling for a few reasons, but one of his conclusions is that the mitzvah is essentially subjective, that whatever it is that makes you feel happy is what you should do on Yom Tov. Though oneg is a different mitzvah, I'm curious why you suggest that subjectivity is the distinction. Thanks,<br>
<br> Jesse A.<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 7:02 PM, Micha Berger <<a href="mailto:micha@aishdas.org">micha@aishdas.org</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
On Wed, February 13, 2008 5:17 pm, R Zev Sero wrote:<br>
: There's no mitzvah of simcha on Shabbos. There's only oneg, and it<br>
: seems obvious that that depends entirely on ones subjective tastes,<br>
: including transient moods....<br>
<br>
Thanks for pointing out to me, yet again, the distinction.<br>
<br>
Mentally, I define the two identically, which is why (I guess) I<br>
confuse them. Simchah is related to wanting and having, because it is<br>
possible to be "sameiach bechelqo". "Oneg" is related to wanting and<br>
having, as the Tanya talks about the process of getting from ratzon to<br>
taanug. (Processes, belashon rabim: ratzon and taanug exist in Nara"n,<br>
or perhaps all the aspects of the soul, Nara"n cha"i. Unfortunately, I<br>
forgot where it is discussed, and Google was of no help. Remedial<br>
Chabad courses that don't clutter the discussion with m"m dominated<br>
the search results.)<br>
<br>
<br>
What does it say about simchah, that it has a codified non-subjective<br>
definition, whereas oneg does not? Does it imply anything about<br>
simchah as a midah?<br>
<br>
I ask because I wrote about sameiach bechelqo on Aspaqlaria yesterday<br>
<>. My suggestion was that "chelqo" isn't one's state at any point in<br>
time, but one's trip. It's a thought that makes it easier for me to<br>
cope with nisyonos, the pekelach everyone has in their lives.<br>
<br>
But in light of RZS's post, I notice my notion also implies a possible<br>
distinction to oneg, which could be about current state. And that<br>
would mean simchah requires more indoctrination than oneg; which would<br>
justify defining matbei'os by which to learn it.<br>
<br>
SheTir'u baTov!<br>
-micha<br>
<br>
--<br>
Micha Berger "Man wants to achieve greatness overnight,<br>
<a href="mailto:micha@aishdas.org">micha@aishdas.org</a> and he wants to sleep well that night too."<br>
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