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<DIV><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>From: "Michael Makovi" <A
href="mailto:mikewinddale@gmail.com">mikewinddale@gmail.com</A><BR> <BR><BR>>>
It is davka in haAretz where we will be a mamlechet kohanim<BR>v'goy kodash, and
thus an ohr lagoyim.<BR><BR>As Rabbi [Eliezer] Berkovits puts it, it takes
a nation to influence a nation.<BR>Despite Rav Hirsch's words to the contrary,
the gentiles will not be<BR>disposed to looking to Jewish aliens in their midst
for guidance; for<BR>one, we are weak and unattractive in galut, and two, we
don't have an<BR>army, government, or economy....<<</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>TK: I agree with R' Hirsch and emphatically disagree with R'
Berkowitz. One of the reasons that we were dispersed all over the world
was precisely because we failed to accomplish our mission of "ohr lagoyim" when
we were in our own land. We were therefore given another way and another
opportunity to do it, scattered among the nations. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In the nations that we live among, Jews have acquired a reputation for
being intelligent, industrious, law-abiding and peaceable citizens. We
have had a positive influence on the entire course of history and
Western civilization. Tragically, all too many of our
fellow Yiddelech have also been among the major destroyers of civilization
-- the name of Marx especially comes to mind, but one may also count Freud,
Asimov, Betty Friedan, Carl Sagan, Peter Singer, Noam Chomsky and many
other Jewish mechablim, great and small. But the list of Jews who
have benefited the countries they lived in, and who created a wondrous
name for the Jewish people, would literally fill pages.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"We don't have an army, government, or economy" -- we don't
/need/ an army, government or economy to be a memleches
kohanim and ohr lagoyim. Remember R' Saadia Gaon's famous
dictum, "Ein umaseinu umah eleh betorasa" -- We are a nation by virtue of
our Torah.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>While our main purpose as frum Jews scattered among the nations is to
live Torah lives and serve as a model of probity and morality, we also
have an obligation to positively and actively influence the goyim
among whom we live. Of course, that obligation holds only to the extent that
circumstances make it possible. In America, we have an obligation to
vote for the candidates who will most advance the morality of the country.
We also have an obligation to make our voices heard in the public square.
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The post that was sent in by R' Gershon Seif, about his wife's testimony
before the Wisconsin Senate, was an excellent example of this. (He wrote that
she testified against a bill that would legalize physician-assisted
suicide. This is the type of issue where the Agudah has been very strong
and active.)</DIV>
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<DIV>RMM: >>....Likewise, we don't serve for Olam Haba....Rav Hirsch
says that Judaism exists for<BR>this world, and that is why the Torah doesn't
speak of olam haba -<BR>because it's really not very important. ....Rather, the
Messianic Era will come, and we'll be<BR>resurrected, and thus we'll live in the
Messianic Era for eternity -<BR>see Rabbi Berkovits [in] G-d Man and
History.<<<BR><BR>TK: I am very uncomfortable with the way you keep
quoting R' Berkovits and RSRH, as if they were equals and
contemporaries. The two are simply not comparable, and R' Berkowitz is
barely even on the normative Orthodox scale. I also think you are
seriously misreading Hirsch if you have come to the conclusion that "olam haba
really isn't important." Your understanding of Hirsch has been influenced
by your reading of a modern left-Orthodox philosopher, it seems to
me.<BR><BR><BR>RMM: >>But why? Why did He choose us? Why did He love
us? Why did He sanctify<BR>us with His mitzvot and proclaim His name on
us?<BR><BR>AL KEN n'kaveh...AL KEN. The reason He chose us, the ENTIRE
reason,<BR>the entire reason for the entire first paragraph of Aleinu, is for
us<BR>to bring the whole world to worship Him. <<</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>TK: I think there is a confusion here about the two meanings of the
word "why." (There may even be more than two meanings.) "Why?" can
mean, "What is the reason, the cause?" or it can mean, "What is the
purpose?" </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>For example, a person might ask, "Why is the kettle hot?" One answer
might be, "Because I turned the stove on" -- that is the cause.
A different answer would be, "Because I want a cup of tea" -- that
is the purpose.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"Why did He choose us? Why did He love us?" </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The *reason*: the Avos chose Him. In sharp contrast to all the
nations who rejected or just ignored Him, our forefathers sought Him out and
chose to cling to Him in defiance of all the other gods and religions of their
time. A similar thing happened again when Hashem offered the Torah to all
the nations of the world, and once again, the goyim rejected the Torah while
the nation of Yisrael embraced it. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"Why did He choose us?" </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The *purpose*: "so that the whole world will be filled with the
knowledge of Hashem." He chose us to keep the Torah and to teach G-dliness
to the whole world.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>BTW this is as good a time as any to quote again one of my favorite bits of
doggerel. This was in answer to the anti-Semitic couplet, "How odd of G-d/
to choose the Jews." The response was: "It's not so odd/ the Jews
chose G-d."</DIV>
<DIV><BR> </DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT lang=0 face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"
PTSIZE="10"><BR><B>--Toby Katz<BR>=============<BR></B>Romney -- good values,
good family, good hair<BR>Best hope against
Hillary</FONT></DIV></DIV></FONT><BR><BR><BR><DIV><FONT style="color: black; font: normal 10pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF;"><HR style="MARGIN-TOP: 10px">Start the year off right. <A title="http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489" href="http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489" target="_blank">Easy ways to stay in shape</A> in the new year. </FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>