<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">From: "Gershon Dubin" < ></font></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">"SBA Gmail" <<a href="mailto:sbasba@gmail.com">sbasba@gmail.com</a>></font></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New"><<A few points to ponder and questions on the parsha.>></font></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">Yasher koach.</font></font></p>
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<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">You're welcome..</font></font></p>
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<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">SBA: The Midrash 69:8 says that the Malach Hamoves had no power in the city of Luz. So what happened to the senior citizens who were well past their use-by dates?
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<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">Simple.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>They were placed outside the walls of the city – where they died.</font></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">(Sounds a bit like the Eskimo solution..)Would this be the first published example of institutionalized euthanasia?>></font>
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<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">RGD: I'm not sure if it's this or another midrash, but the way I remember it is when they get tired of living (this is common among very old people
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<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">From: Zev Sero SBA Gmail wrote:</font></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">They did no such thing.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>Old people lived until they were tired of it, and when they were ready to die *they* went outside the city.
<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>They were not "placed" outside by ungrateful children who didn't want to go on feeding them!<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>No comparison to "euthanasia" at all.
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<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">SBA: They sure did - according to the Midrash 69:8 (which I was quoting):</font></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">Vezeh leshonoy: "Hee Luz - shelo sholat bo malach hamoves meolom. </font></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">Hazekenim sheba ma osim lohem? Kivun shehem zekenim harbeh - motziim osom chutz lachomah vehem mesim.."</font></font></p>
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<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">The version in the gemara Sotah 46B- however says that they walked out on their own.</font></font></p>
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<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New"><<31:34 - Am I understanding it correctly that Rochel was sitting on her camel INSIDE the tent? And if so, was/is this the done thing - having camels in the tent that you live?>>
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<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">RGD: In my chumash it says she was sitting on the camel PILLOW;<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>presumably when they brought that inside they left the camel outside (except maybe for his nose <g>)
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<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">RZS: No, she was sitting on the *saddle*.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>Which was indeed kept indoors, as one would expect.
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<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">SBA: See the Ibn Ezra 31:34 that Rochel was sitting on the saddle - outside of her tent.</font></font></p>
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<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">Another response - which I haven't yet seen on list (so I'll delete the identity of the poster):</font></font></p>
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<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">From: J</font></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">To: <a href="mailto:sbasba@gmail.com">sbasba@gmail.com</a></font></font></p>
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<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">I always enjoy your list of parsha questions.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>[Thanks]</font></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">To my recollection, the source says that they would leave of their own</font></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">volition when they became tired of life [See above.]</font></font></p>
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<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">.. but similar question vis-a-vis suicide, anyway.</font></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">Lich'orah it would only be a grama, similar to stopping anti-cancer </font></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">medication, as they would not necessarily die as soon as they left the</font></font></p>
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<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">> 29:11 - Vayishak Yaakov leRochel.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>2 pesukim later re Lavan kissing Yaakov</font></font>
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<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">> "Veynashek Lo".</font></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">> Is there any difference between 'vayishak' and 'vaynashek'? </font></font></p>
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<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">What immediately stands out to me is that neshek is Modern Hebrew for</font></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">weapon, although not sure if the word has any basis in lashon</font></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">ha-kodesh.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>Not sure what the effect of the grammatical difference</font></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">would be, though. </font></font></p>
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<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">> 29:32 - Rashi dh Vatikra shemo Reuven - 'Omro re'u ma bein beni leben</font></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">> chami...'></font></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">> The first obvious question is, the Torah gives a clear reason why Leah</font></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">> called him Reuven - 'ki ro'o Hashem be'onyi', so why is Rashi giving a </font></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">> different reason - which is also difficult to understand as Yosef, who is a main feature of this - was yet to be born...</font>
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<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">I recall hearing that Rashi is answering the question regarding why he</font></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">was named "Reuven", instead of, i.e., "Rayon".<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>The fact that Yosef</font>
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<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">wasn't born yet fits in well, in that Leah possibly didn't herself</font></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">realize the significance of her choice of the name "Reuven" over</font></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">"Rayon", so therefore did not say the reason of Rashi explicitly in </font></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">the pesukim.</font></font></p>
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<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">[If you look at the sources in the Ein Yaakov, that I mentioned, there is something like that suggested.]</font></font></p>
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<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">> But we see that his father Besuel who did have a son - Lavan - still sent</font></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">> his sister Rivka to do the same thing...?</font></font></p>
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<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">Rivka went out to draw water, presumably for human use, which is a</font></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">much less labor-intensive job than watching sheep</font></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">[I got that one wrong. I confused her and Rochel..]</font></font></p>
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<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">> 31:34 - Am I understanding it correctly that Rochel was sitting on her</font></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">> camel INSIDE the tent? And if so, was/is this the done thing - having</font></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">> camels in the tent that you live?</font></font></p>
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<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">Also, if her only ailment was "derech nashim" why should she be </font></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">precluded from standing up or doing any type of physical activity? </font></font></p>
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<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">SBA: Actually the Ramban (31:35) asks exactly that question.</font></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">He replies with a comprehensive description of how Niddos were considered in those days - pretty strong stuff, which I suggest that the more feral feminists do not look up...
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<p class="MsoPlainText" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New">SBA</font></font></p>
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