<br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 10/31/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">Jonathan Baker</b> <<a href="mailto:jjbaker@panix.com" target="_blank">jjbaker@panix.com</a>> wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
RRW:<br><br>What you're looking for is a real response to R' Joel Roth's "The Halakhic<br>Process: A Systemic Analysis". </blockquote><div><br>Exactly. I think attacks on JRs' methodology need to be specific.
<br> </div><br><blockquote style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;" class="gmail_quote"> I read an Orthodox review that said that<br>Roth concluded that while there are lots of rules of psak, it's left entirely
<br>to the individual posek to decide which rule applies where. In other words,<br>there are no rules that govern the application of the rules, so there are in<br>effect no actual rules that would lead inexorably from S {set of circumstances}
<br>to P a singular psak.<br><br>This, then, is an argument for anarchy in psak, allowing the Conservative<br>poskim to go where they will.<br><br>You argue that there are meta-rules such as "adherence to minhag" etc.
<br>that govern where a psak goes, but that's still not a rule, that's an<br>excuse to generate a conclusion, and then Tosfos or the Rosh or whoever<br>are free to apply the rules as necessary to reach the conclusion. Puk
<br>chazi rules. Not that that's a bad thing, when you're looking at a<br>community that is 90% observant, but it doesn't help much when, as today,<br>90% of Jews are non-observant.<br><br>There needs to be some kind of new overarching principle to guide psak,
<br>like the old "minhag rules" or "the Bavli rules". Unfortunately, in this<br>post "Rupture and Reconstruction" world, the rule may be becoming "lomdish<br>chumra rules", which can drive more people away from Torah.
<br><br>It seems to me that part of the original purpose of AishDas was to create,<br>on at least an individual level, a consciousness choice of meta-rules that<br>would describe and drive one's own path in Torah & mitzvah observance. If
<br>it's so difficult to even define the scope of a meta-rule, that goal was<br>probably doomed from the start. It was part of the reasoning behind the<br>MMGH learning program - to learn enough about different derachim so as to
<br>choose intelligently among meta-rules. But learning enough about a derech<br>to even formulate a meta-rule is very difficult: philosphism, Chasidism<br>(various strains), Lurianism, Yeshivishim, Modernism - all have different
<br>ways of approaching the rules.--<br> - jon baker </blockquote><div>
</div><div><br>Well put!<br>The problem is that poskim themselves do not seem to posit a rule and to stick to it! <br><br>I can come up with more than ONE valid model of meta-Halachah. However, shich poskim stick to ANY meta-rules?
<br><br>Bet Yosef set up a Bet Din<br>Kitzur SA supposedly had one, too [viz. chayei Adam SA harav and Derech hayyim]<br>Shulchan Aruch Harav USUALlY follows Magen Avraham
<br>Kaf hachayyim brings as many sources as possible. I am not sure how he selects the winner but I <br>ROY aiui is about restoring the authority of Maran Bet Yosef amongst Sephardim.<br><br>But many poskim are SO eclectic it is really hard to discern any methodology or any authority that can trump their pesak. And that would mean that:
<br><ol><li> Choshen Mishpat 25 is obviated wrt to'eh dbidvar hasmishne and <br></li><li>unlike a Sanhedrin the scnario of horayos could not happen</li><li>therefore making modern poskim less accountable than the Beis Din Hagadolo in the BhM!
</li></ol>I think this was one the main objectiosn to the Rambam's Mishne Torah. OTOH Tosafos nearly always justifies its positions [or attempts to anyway]<br> <br></div></div><br>Kol Tuv / Best Regards,<br><a href="mailto:RabbiRichWolpoe@Gmail.com" target="_blank">
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