<br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 10/23/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">Richard Wolpoe</b> <<a href="mailto:rabbirichwolpoe@gmail.com">rabbirichwolpoe@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 10/23/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">David Riceman</b> <<a href="mailto:driceman@att.net" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">driceman@att.net</a>
> wrote:</span><span class="q"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Richard Wolpoe wrote:<br><br>> The Torah is not about SELF-PERFECTION but creating SOCIETAL<br>> perfection, i.e a mamlehces kohanim<br>So would you find that hypothetical survey convincing? Incidentally, if<br>that's the function of the Torah, wouldn't we be better off dismissing
<br>all failed Jews from the clan?</blockquote></span></div></blockquote><div><br></div>See Sanhedrin Mishna 9:5 [recnet Mishna yomis]<br>The only missas beis din that warrents Kippa due to flawed testimony is "horeg nefesh"
<br><br>Reason?<br>Kehatti Citing Talmud: Only horgei Nefesh get kippah that even though that there are avieros hamuros than Shefichus damim, neverthless they do not entail haschasa yishuvo shel olam"<br><br>[which avieros hamuros? maybe AZ in private. No kippah for that[
<br><br>Thus we see that the singular point is to enforce Yishuvo shel olam and to counter hash'chassas yishuva ehshel olam.. This dovetails with parshas no'ach - ki mol'ah ho'oretz hamas - is fatal. Dor haflagah - challening HKBH while having a co-operative society- is FLAWED but NOT fatally flawed.
<br><br>The AZ of Ach'av did not prevent his military succes. Why? No lashon horin during his reign! While OTOH Bayis shsheini was filled wtih Torah-True Jews and the Bayis was destroyed becasue of Sin'as Hinam. <br>
<br>Anyone who reads the plain Peshat of Mikra in Yisro, Misphatim, kedoshim will see that the Torah is primarily convcerned with a just society not about self-perfection. Self-perfection is nice of course but is mainly for y'chidei segulah not necessary for the society at large. The important thing for a society are concepts like:
<br><ul><li>Shiftu Yassom,. rivu Almanah. <br></li><li>Tzedek Tzedek tirdof <br></li><li>Betzedek Tishpot Amisecha<br></li></ul>Coarse/Crude people can still contribute to a society at large as long as their behavior is not essentially anti-social
<br><br>Hnistaros Lashem Elokeinu, v'haniglos lanu ulevaneinu...<br><br>Let individuals wrestle with HKBH self-perfection Torah as a Bris as a covenatn is about the public welfare, both the spiritual and material. Even hillul Sahbbos is qualitatively different b'tzin'a vs. b'farhesyah, because after all b'tzin'a there is no public hashchassah.
<br><br>QED<br></div><br>-- <br>Kol Tuv / Best Regards,<br><a href="mailto:RabbiRichWolpoe@Gmail.com">RabbiRichWolpoe@Gmail.com</a><br>Please Visit: <br><a href="http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/">http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/
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