On 10/9/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">saul mashbaum</b> <<a href="mailto:smash52@netvision.net.il">smash52@netvision.net.il</a>> wrote:<div><span class="gmail_quote"></span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div><p>The existence of non-literal *terms*, a common feature in any language, does not justify the conclusion that the legal statements made by chazal may sometimes be taken non-literally (a position which nevertheless I believe to be correct).
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<p>Saul Mashbaum</p></div>
</blockquote></div>Correct it's all about semantics<br>but to me literal avoids the idiomatic<br><br>What you seem to be saying is that we should usually follow the P'shat.<br>What I am adding is that the literal meaning is not always the p'shat becasue sometimes the p'shat is dealing with an idiom.
<br><br>Illustration:<br><div style="margin-left: 40px;">My point is a "piece of cake" literally en francais: un morceau de gateau.<br></div>Of course that would be a bad translation. Literally a piece of cake is something you probably eat after making a mezonos. Idiomatically it mens something simple
<br>Re-translate the above idiomatically and you would say:<br>[something like:]<br><div style="margin-left: 40px;">Ma point est tres facile [a comprendre]. My point is easy [to understand] <br></div><br>I discussed Targum Onkelos with Professor Moshe Bernstein. He mentioned that the Targum does not always state the p'shat. After we chatted, it turns out that he conceded that even the p'shat is not always the literal meaning - due to of idioms, metaphors, similes, etc. So while sometimes Targum is off into Midrash [
e.g. lo sevashel g'di] at other times his non-literal translation really IS the simple pashut p'shat because the original is after all idiomiatic.<br><br><br>Back to Hametz<br>Bodkim es hechametz<br><div style="margin-left: 40px;">
Literally: inspect the Hametz<br></div><blockquote style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;" class="gmail_quote">Idiomaticaly search FOR Hametz [m'chappsim be'ad hechametz]
<br></blockquote><br>But if one is overly rigid, dogmatic, or inflexible, idioms could be taken literally too.<br>Hazal aisi were very loose at times with expressions in order to convey various levels of meaning . And sometimes they repeated verbatim legal statements that stem from different eras of linguistic history. Think about all the synonyms we have for kal vachomer!
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