<br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 9/20/07, <b class="gmail_sendername"><a href="mailto:kennethgmiller@juno.com">kennethgmiller@juno.com</a></b> <<a href="mailto:kennethgmiller@juno.com">kennethgmiller@juno.com</a>> wrote:
</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">R' Richard Wolpoe wrote:<br>> Rav Gelley has said many times that Breu'ers does not say
<br>> X or Y because their minhag pre-dates the inclusion of X<br>> or Y into the Davening - IOW the minhag is older than Rema!<br><br>I'd like to know how this works. At what point did the kehilah say "Today is the cutoff. Things we've added until now are okay, but no more new stuff."
<br><br>I ask this because it seems clear to me that they DO say some things which were added after Chasimas HaGemara. Like Slichos.<br><br>Akiva Miller<br><br></blockquote></div><br>Breuer's STILL adds/changes stuff and has made changes to both Nusach and melodies over the years.
<br><br>I have a post about modifying a kitchen in a Frank Lloyd Wright home - which is a classic but stuck with a 1950's kitchen. The art/science of change in a place like Breuer's about being consistent and in harmony with the various shitos it has adopted over the years
<br><br>That is why the "lesheim Yichud" 's in the Roedlehim IMHO have no place being there. They are inconsistent and wer eprobably borrowed from elsewhere. E.G. Years ago we discussed how the Kaddish Derabban got a "le'chayyim tovim" in the yehei Shlama. This is NOT taive to Ashkenaz, it's an import.
<br><br>Similarly, When the Alter Rebbe of Chabad did his Siddur AL PI ARIZAL he did NOT follow the Ari blindly- rather he modified nusach Ashkenaz according to Lurianic principles!<br><br>When you master the principles of the German Minhag you would know HOW and WHEN to make those modfications. Anyone who understands Breuers would realize why reading Zeicher and Zecher both on Zachor would NEVER fit that model. [{See R. Moredcai Breuer's A"H arrtcile on Zeicher/Zecher] .
<br><br>Heidenhim, Baer, and RSR Hirsch, and others all published Siddurim and/or Machachazorim. There is even diversity in yekke land.<br><br>Aslo See Artscrol on Yamim Norai' re: l'eila 'eila vs le'ila Ul'eila. Dikduk seesm to dicatate no OO sound. OTOH the Mahayil's own writings support this read. The roedlehim takes the literal read of the Mharyl OVER the dikduk based revision. This revision is strongly suported by BOTH Mishna Brura and Birnbaum [a strange set of fellows indeed!] byut not by the old source texts.
<br>
<br><br clear="all">In most American Congregations, there is no consistent shita, so changes go in willy-nilly.[FWIW I don't see Artscroll as 100% consistent either thought they USUALLY follow Rema in the text.} E.G
. A congregation in Teaneck LOOSELY follows the GRA and RYD but is clearly inconsistent. During my first Shabbos in this shul: I asked the Rabbi <br>Q: "How come yo skip Baruch hashem l'olam in Arbis of weekdays but say v'shamru on Shabbas!"
<br>A: "What do you want from me? I came to this shul with this and I am stuck with these minhaggim." <br><br><br>The idea of Hasima imho is a popular but false myth. There is a period of diversity and debate and the dialetic gets resolved.
E.G. Tefillin deRashi vs. Derabbeinu Tam. After the issue is settled a precedent is set, regardless of hasimas hatalmud etc. Differing Halachic precedents get set at different times. <br><br>Later on, revisionists come in and "stir the pot".
E.G. The matter of Baruch Hsheim L'olam in Arbis. The Ga'onim added it and Ashkenazim did for 600-900 years w/o much debate. Only later on did it become problematic. [FWIW the Gra did not prohibit this he jsut personalyl moitted it whilst his Minyan recited it. see
<span style="font-style: italic;">Ma'sev harav</span> iirc.] Standing for Asseres hadibros is another. The original lminhag is quite cogent and it has bee nrevised, But IMHO the revisions are a trade-off and while PERHAPS solving some problems they arguably create an equal number of new ones [see the wonderful sefer "
<span style="font-style: italic;">Minhag Avoseinu beyadeinu</span>" <br><br>Kesiva vaChasima Tova<br>Best Wishes for 5768,<br><a href="mailto:RabbiRichWolpoe@Gmail.com">RabbiRichWolpoe@Gmail.com</a><br>Please Visit:
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