<br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 9/16/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">Arie Folger</b> <<a href="mailto:afolger@aishdas.org">afolger@aishdas.org</a>> wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<br><br>Repeat after me: saying selichos in the evening is not a Jeckishe minhog. We<br>say selichos [at 6:15] in the morning even on the first day, despite it being<br>Sunday.<br><br>AFAIK, we have been doing this for over 200 years in our kehilloh, and that
<br>must have been taken over from even older Ashkenaz communities.<br><br>Whoever invented this novel idea of saying selichos right after the TV show,<br>before the late night show, wasn't trying to observe minhog Ashkenaz, AFAIK.
<br><br>While I do not swallow minhog Ashkenaz hook, sink and barrel, preferring<br>instead to analyze it. It is much of the time rooted in most ancient pisqei<br>halakhah - "from before the standardization *on* the Bavli," as RRW is wont
<br>to say. For some reason not connected to minhog Ashkenaz, but very much<br>connected to the religious disconnectedness of a large number of our brethren<br>since the 19th century, Jeckes are blamed for anything not halakhically
<br>acceptable. This is unjustified. Blame Reform, blame the various kofrim<br>veapiqorsim, messissim umedi'him our people has unfortunately endured in the<br>last 200 years, but do not blame the Jeckes.<br><br>Chassieme tauwoh,
<br>--<br>(Rabbi) Arie Folger, Israelitische Gemeinde Basel<br>happily embracing the old, well worn tradition of our kehilloh,<br>happily learning minhog Ashkenaz,<br>who-is-nonetheless-half-Galicianer-half-Moroccan<br><a href="http://www.ariefolger.googlepages.com">
http://www.ariefolger.googlepages.com</a><br>_______________________________________________</blockquote><div><br>I want to Echo R.Arie Folger's sentiments.<br><br>There was a [mis-leading imho] statement that Hatzos is the ideal time for Sellichos floating around Teaneck, NJ. Yet, - AFAIK based upon sources etc. as well as the Yekkishe Minhag - THE IDEAL time t is RIGHT BEFORE dawn, pre-vaissikim. As we know, the first night MIGHT be a valid exception in that pizmon - even for yekkes - starts "Bemotzo'ei Menuchei" - suggesting A Saturday Night start. [nevertheless as noted - Yekkes do it before dawn even on the first Sunday...]
<br><br>And a disclaimer of sorts:<br>I agree with R. Arie that TV etc. is NO reason to do Selichos before Hatzos MY essntial justification is re: Kavvanah! I.E. if one's Kavvanh is best at 10:00 PM over and above either 1:00 Am or 6:00 AM. I think the Kavvanah counts, or even trumps in the cheshbon. But I am NOT saying it ever makes 10:00 Pm a lecatchila option, AISI it is a valid sha'as hadechak option when justifiable.
<br><br>[Also if it is the ONLY time a community can get a minyan it is tantamount to davening an early Ma'ariv during a Summer weeknight which IS a yekkishe custom.] <br></div></div><br>Remember the same sources that demand 13 Middos after hatzos ALSO deem Tikkun Hatzos as preferential over Selichos!
<br><br><br>Kesiva vaChasima Tova<br>Best Wishes for 5768,<br><a href="mailto:RabbiRichWolpoe@Gmail.com">RabbiRichWolpoe@Gmail.com</a><br>Please Visit: <br><a href="http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/">http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/
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