<font style="font-family: verdana; font-style: italic;" size="4"><<</font><br style="font-style: italic;"><div style="direction: ltr; font-style: italic;">According to Dov Katz this is a machlokes
between Slabodka and the older schools of mussar. See Dov Katz, Tenuas
HaMussar III:121-126. I suspect that it's not so much a machlokes as
an adaptation to different circumstances. Maybe these people are just
studying in the wrong place.<br></div><span style="font-style: italic;" class="sg"><br>David Riceman>></span><font style="font-family: verdana;" size="4"><br><br>Please permit me to elaborate on R. David Reisman's comments - indeed there were 2 general trends in the Mussar Schools:
<br></font><ol style="font-family: verdana;"><li><font size="4">The find fault school out to detect one's failings and to correct them in order to attain self-perfection.<br></font></li><li><font size="4">The "Be the best you can be school" which appeals to a human's potentila for loftiness; and therefore accentuated those positive aspects that could bring a person to a higher level of observance and self-perfection w/o necessarily addressing specific faults. I think that this was spear-headed by the Alter from Slobodka who mentored many Gedolim.
</font></li></ol><font size="4">In the Elu 'velu mode and in the hanoch lan'ar al pi darko spirit, it is certainly legitimate to see BOTh methods as valuable<br><br>To a person who is "full-of-himself" the first method is probably best. See Rambam Shmoneh Perakim for why a pernson should balance his "dei'so/moddos" by tilting to the other extreme...
<br><br>However, an individual who is a bit "shefal ruach" could be devastated by this method and might be better served by appealing to his highest nature.<br><br>A talmid at Yeshiva "Chofetz Chaim" told me beshaim his rav that middos are like medicines or herbs. What cures one can be poison to another. AIUI "Dr. Rambam" would concur.
<br><br>And no doubt, probably the average pefson would be best served by some combination of both methodologies.<br><br>I have run into people who have exhibited a high degree of self-centredness yet are nevertheless highly sensiitve to even the mildest forms of criticisms. Even though their apparent, superficial "self-confidence" might lead one to believe to implement method #1, nevertheless their well-hidden internal insecurities might in reality call for using method #2 .
<br> <br> <br></font>-- <br>Kesiva vaChasima Tova<br>Best Wishes for 5768,<br><a href="mailto:RabbiRichWolpoe@Gmail.com">RabbiRichWolpoe@Gmail.com</a><br>Please Visit: <br><a href="http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/">http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/
</a><br><font style="font-family: verdana;" size="4"> </font><br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 8/28/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">Daniel Eidensohn</b> <<a href="mailto:yadmoshe@012.net.il">yadmoshe@012.net.il
</a>> wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">I recently was asked by a number of recent baalei teshuvos - how to<br>
deal with what they perceived as the intense negative atmosphere of<br>Elul in their seminary classes. They said that they were attracted to<br>Torah observance because it was such a positive, future oriented way of<br>life. However they find that in the seminary programs, there is a focus
<br>on finding fault with oneself, looking at the negative, being self<br>critical and skeptical about their motivation. They felt guilty about<br>being turned off by this approach. They had been given an exercise<br>requiring them to list their ten worst sins and what they should do to
<br>repent.<br><br>I asserted there is a direct comparison in this issue between<br>psychotherapy and repentance. In both one chooses whether to focus on<br>digging in the dirt or focusing on developing one's potential. In other
<br>words, one can do teshuva either by focusing on faults or by focusing on<br>avodas HaShem as described by Rav Chaim Shmuelvitz. While the Rambam<br>clearly requires acknowledging sin, the affirmation of leaving it and
<br>confession - the issue is whether the main concern is repentance through<br>repair of the bad or through improvement of the good? I understand the<br>following two sources as going beyond the issue of repenting one's sins
<br>and focusing on the larger picture of what should be done with one's<br>life. Any other sources which are relevant to this issue?<br><br>*Sichos Musar (#33): *Everyone is required to thoroughly examine his<br>deeds especially before Rosh HaShanna - the Day of Judgment. This
<br>obligation is not just to discover transgressions and lapses in<br>observance of the commands. It also includes the evaluation whether<br>one's path in serving G‑d is the correct one for him since everyone has<br>
a unique path. The issue of Avodas HaShem is such that a person could<br>keep all the mitzvos yet have a completely false approach to serving<br>G‑d. The problem is compounded by the fact that he might have<br>incorrectly assumed that what he was doing would be pleasing to G‑d.
<br>Nevertheless all his efforts would have been to accomplish a mistaken<br>goal. Consequently if he has not carefully evaluated the correctness of<br>his plan than all his efforts and sacrifices are wasted. Furthermore he
<br>is punished according to the degree of effort he made to accomplish this<br>wrong plan… This can be seen from the fact that Rav Yochanon ben Zakkai<br>who was not only the leading Torah scholar of his time but also had
<br>succeeded in saving Torah for all future generations was frightened<br>before his death. He cried before his students and said "I see before me<br>two paths – one to Gan Eden and the other to Gehinom and I don't know
<br>where they are taking me. Shouldn't I cry?" His fear was not because of<br>failing to keep the whole Torah. His fear was solely because he might<br>have failed to properly have done his Avodas HaShem. There is the
<br>additional problem with Avodas HaShem – that one simply can't repent for<br>doing it incorrectly since it is easy to be mistaken and assume that you<br>are doing the right thing.<br><br><br>*Mishna Berura (Shaar HaTziyun 622:6): *A person many times despairs of
<br>correcting his faults and concludes that if G-d decrees that he dies<br>because of his failure there is nothing he can do about it. However this<br>is a mistaken attitude because in the end, G-d will get the correction
<br>of the soul that He wants. The soul will be reincarnated over and over<br>again into this world until the correction is achieved. Consequently why<br>should the soul repeatedly suffer death and the anguish of the grave and
<br>other things? Proof of this is from Yonah whom G-d wanted to prophesize<br>for Nineveh and he tried to escape to the sea where prophesy does not<br>occur. We see that he sunk into sea and was swallowed by the great fish
<br>and was in its belly many days where it seems that it was impossible to<br>fulfill G-d's command. Nevertheless we see that at the end G-d's will<br>was fulfilled and he went and prophesized. Thus it is with everyman<br>
according to his Divinely ordained task. Therefore as it says in Avos<br>(4:22): Don't view the grave as a refuge—because you were born against<br>your will, you live against your will, you die against your will and<br>against your will you will have to justify all your actions to the
<br>Heavenly court.<br><br><br>Daniel Eidensohn<br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Avodah mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Avodah@lists.aishdas.org">Avodah@lists.aishdas.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.aishdas.org/listinfo.cgi/avodah-aishdas.org">
http://lists.aishdas.org/listinfo.cgi/avodah-aishdas.org</a><br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br><br>