<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><DIV>me<BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">2. <SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>WRT to orthopraxy - in general, someone who makes kiddush and is<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>shomer</FONT></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">shabbat is me'id on briat haolam. <SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>The notion of hezkat<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>kashrut means that</FONT></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">unless we have specific knowledge to the contrary,<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>someone who is orthoprax</FONT></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">has the hazaka of being orthodox - and we don't<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>normally check ikkarim....</FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV>RSB<BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica; min-height: 14.0px"><BR></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">The Talmud tells us that someone who recites Krias Shema without Tefilin is <SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></FONT></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">considered as if he is giving false testimony because of the connection<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></FONT></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">between<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>Tefilin and Shema. While the recitation of Kiddush and Havdalah<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></FONT></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">accomplishes the<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>mitzvas aseh of sanctifying Shabbos verbally at the beginning and<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></FONT></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">departure of<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>Shabbos, OTOH, I know of no source wherein it is stated that reciting<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></FONT></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">Kiddush is<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>considered as if one sanctifies Shabbos by refraining from<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></FONT></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">melacha.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></FONT></P> </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><DIV>Of course, I agree with RSB - my point was that someone who makes kiddush "and" (emphasis now added - but was in original) is being me'id by words and actions - not that saying kiddush makes one shomer shabbat..- but that edut is sufficient proof unless one has specfic proof otherwise.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Meir Shinnar</DIV></BODY></HTML>