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<DIV><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>From: R' Noah Greenfield:<BR><BR>>>I am under the impression that
the GRIZ and R Chaim Kanievsky both oppose<BR>the minhag of upsherin, even
suggesting that there might be pagan<BR>influences. If this is correct, is it
proper to attend a colleague's<BR>(child's) upsherin ceremony? Is there any
legitimacy in attending if I think<BR>my colleague would otherwise be offended
in any way? Should I point out to<BR>him the potential pagan-ness of his
party?<BR><BR>Also, how should this be presented to students who may have
had<BR>upsherin themselves. Should we be warning them against this
ceremony?<<<BR><BR>Best,<BR>Noah
Greenfield<BR>ngreenfield@gmail.com<BR><BR><BR></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>.</DIV>
<DIV>>>>>></DIV>
<DIV>Lots of things we do have at least some slight pagan or foreign influence
behind them (e.g., leaning at the seder as Roman aristocrats did, or lighting
bonfires on Lag B'Omer which some say comes from some old Arab holiday, etc
etc). In my family growing up, lighting birthday candles was considered
chukas hagoyim and verboten. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>However, once something has been established as a minhag for several
generations -- and in my chassidishe natal family, upsherenishes were definitely
the minhag! -- then the origin no longer matters. Especially when
the origin has long been forgotten. (Sorry for clumsy English plural
"upsherenishes" -- don't know the correct Yiddish -- I've forgotten most
of my Yiddish -- chaval al d'avdin.)</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>One reason that I've heard for the opsheren is that the child reaches the
age of chinuch at three, and at that age you want him to start being aware of
the mitzva of payos. Even if he doesn't wear long payos, he should know
not to cut the payos too short when he has a haircut. If his hair was
always short, he won't notice the difference now. But if he has his first
haircut at three and the payos are pointed out and carefully /not/ cut, he will
be aware of his payos.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>My husband is a Litvak so my son did not have an upsheren, and I was just
as happy, because I never really cared for the look of long and unkempt
hair and pony tails on boys. I guess I was just destined to marry a
Litvak.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>As for your question, since the minhag is of such long standing and so
widespread in Torah circles, you certainly /should/ go to your friend's
celebration, bring a present and wish him mazal tov. Any comments you
want to make should be made in a casual conversation at some /other/ time and
place. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>You should /not/ tell children whose fathers are bnai Torah that their
family minhag is pagan, assur and wrong. You /can/ tell them that there
are varying opinions among the poskim. When children are older -- high
school age -- they can be told that a few poskim suspect the upsheren to
be of pagan origin. Young children should not be told anything that
will lead them to doubt whether their fathers can be relied on, but at the same
time they should be told enough so that they can appreciate that the other
guys have sources and poskim, too. Those Litvaks who don't have
upsherenishes should not hold chasssidim in contempt, or vice versa.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>As for the the GRIZ and R Chaim Kanievsky, theirs is definitely a minority
opinion in the Torah community, and therefore you need have no qualms about
joining in the simcha of friends who follow the opinion of other rabbonim and
poskim. This is not anything like the "Should I go to a Reform bat
mitzva?" type of question!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>BTW I don't know who the GRIZ is.</DIV>
<DIV><FONT lang=0 face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"
PTSIZE="10"><B><BR></B><BR><B>--Toby
Katz<BR>=============</B></FONT></DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>