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<DIV>Micha Berger writes:<BR>> Well, the notion of saying that lifnei
iveir is about bad advice or <BR>> helping<BR>> someone sin to the
exclusion of literally tripping the blind is <BR>> supported in<BR>> part
by the fact that tripping blind people violates other issurim. <BR>> It
would<BR>> be superfluous to prohibit this particular kind of
chavalah.<BR>> <BR>> So, there would be no nafqa mina lehalakhah, since
both agree that <BR>> (1) telling<BR>> someone to sin violates LI, and (2)
putting a stumbling block where <BR>> it might<BR>> cause a blind person
to hurt himself is assur. The debate is only <BR>> over which<BR>> issurim
#2 violates.<BR><BR></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT
face="Times New Roman">There’s no question that tripping a blind person is
really not nice and (in the context of lifnei iveir and beyond) not to be
encouraged. And certainly forbidden. </FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT
face="Times New Roman"> <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns =
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman">My
question was in regard to its (paradoxic) specific Shem Isur as regards its
halachic meaning. The Ragatchover (Responsa Tzafnas Paneach 5) raises the issue
if Lifnei Iver violates (generalized) Lifnei Iver or a subset of the specific
sin that was encouraged and abetteted, though not Halachically itself
constituting a Maaseh. [He brings many fascinating examples: is giving fire to
fire-worshipping<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Persians
(Sanhedrin 74a) avizrayhu of Avodah Zarah (Rashi) or “only Lifnei Iver” (Ramban)
(!)]. (And see the Lubavitcher Rebbe, Likutei Sichos 11:149, ff. 65).</FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT
face="Times New Roman"> <o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman">So
is [literal] Lifnei Iver an independent Shem Isur in the Torah (Meshech
Chochmah, Zohar, etc.), or simply a subset of another prohibition, and thus what
is the status of its own [halachic] Lifnei Iver? So, not necessarily a halachic
Nafka Mina, though the Ragatchover cites several (halachic) instances of nafka
minas of the general question (is a Tarfus seller a Tarfus eater or not as
regards Eidus (Rambam Eidus 12:9), etc.), but rather what shall we call this
generalized/specific Isur.</FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT
face="Times New Roman"> <o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT
face="Times New Roman">There is of course, a POST-postmodern reading and Nafka
Mina in the relationship of Peshat and Derash in Lifnei Iver. </FONT><FONT
face="Times New Roman">If, as had been pointed out, MANY instances of “Iver” are
meant simply metaphoric in many (Halachic!) texts (Ki HaShochad YE-AVER, Shemos
23:9, Devarim 1:19), etc.) and ALL usages of Michshol in Tanach are ALWAYS
metaphoric in their plainest sense (Michshol Avon, etc.), reading Lifnei Iver lo
Sitein Michshol literally would make it the ONLY Pasuk in Tanach where it isn’t
meant metaphorically at its plainest level of meaning.</FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT
face="Times New Roman"> <o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Thus: if Lifnei Iver at the level of Peshuto shel Mikra
is understood as plainly metaphoric at its simplest level of meaning, (as in: Im
yakum veyis-halech bachutz al Mishanto, im yizrach alav hashemesh, Charbi
veKashti, etc.)</FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT
face="Times New Roman"> <o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman">the
Halachic sense [encouraging] of<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN>Lifnei Iver would be the pasuk’s Peshat meaning and the subset
prohibition of [literally] tripping derived by reading the pasuk hyperliterally
would be a shem Isur derived by Derash! (and would this have halachic
ramifications?)</FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT
face="Times New Roman"></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Nachman Levine</FONT></P>
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face="Times New Roman"></FONT> </P></DIV></BODY></HTML>