R' Micha Berger wrote: > Actually, specifically for hiddur mitzvah. RSZA explicitly > calls the first case a hiddur mitzvah, and bediqas chameitz > doesn't /require. OTOH, yom tov lights are a taqanah, an > actual din derabannan, not "only" hiddur. Now that would > only work for the first light. After that, we are left with > comparing minhag yisrael to hiddur, for which I would think > minhag Yisrael kedin spells that it's a greater need, and > therefore makes sense that we lemaaseh call it "letzorekh". You seem to be saying that the second of the two Neros Yom Tov is a bigger hiddur/minhag/kedin/tzorech than the Ner of Bedikas Chometz is. I have trouble accepting that. Using a ner for the bedikah is the first mishna in Pesachim! I don't think the second Ner Shabbos is mentioned anywhere near that far back. Even more significantly, the Shaar Hatziyun in question (435:9) says that because of his Tzarich Iyun of whether or not one may light the Ner Bedikas Chometz on Yom Tov, he has no choice but to delay the bedikah until Chol Hamoed (assuming, of course, that there is no already-lit ner that can be used). If it were less important than the Second Ner Yom Tov, wouldn't he have told us to do the bedikah without the ner? and RMB also wrote: > But I wonder what RSZA would have said about the norm of > using candles on Simchas Torah -- a hiddur minhag. Aside > from shuls that use two candles to light the way, or to keep > the aaron from being empty, before people worried about the > fire hazard, many decorated the tops of flags, etc... This morning, R' Jacob Farkas suggested to me (offline) that we might look at Yahrzeit lights as another example of this problem. I recalled that the Shmiras Shabbos dicusses this issue, so I went to look it up. The Shmiras Shabbos 13:6 does say that it is okay to light nerot in shul, even during the day, and also to light for a brit milah, and also to light Ner Neshama in shul. BUT lighting a Ner Neshama at HOME is a bit of a problem. This could be the key to our question: What is the nafka mina between a ner neshama in shul and a ner neshama at home? He lists several sources, mostly in Orach Chaim 514, but I have not yet had a chance to look them up. I hope to do so soon. R' Daniel Israel wrote: > Given that RAM explicitly assumed that Neros don't add > hanah in a room that is already fully lit electrically his > question still stands. (Although I am not sure I agree > with that assumption.) Let me remind you that (as I mentioned in my original post) Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach did make that same assumption. His words, in Shmiras Shabbos K'Hilchasa 43 note 171, are: "leika klal shum simcha yeseira mizeh - there is no extra simcha whatsoever from the candles". Akiva Miller