[Avodah] ALL 24000 died

[Ben Bradley]

Hadrian speant a lot of time suppressing us after the fall of
Beitar. The plowing of the Har haBayis didn't happen at the same time
as BK's Temple building project.

Beitar fell in the summer of 135 at the end of the BK revolt, historians seem unanimous on that. And the Hadrianic decrees ceased with the death of Hadrian in 138, only 3 years after Beitar fell. That also seems undisputed by historians. So whichever way you look at it R Akiva, who certainly died between the later stages of the BK revolt and the death of of Hadrian had very little time to raise more talmidim if they died during the revolt.
And as I pointed out, the particular talmidim he is said to have raised afterwards were mature adults by the BK revolt, there seems next to no doubt about from what we know of their own biographies. So it's exceptionally unlikely to the point of impossible that he took them as students at that time.


 Sherira Gaon in the She'iltos
<http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14593&pgnum=89> says "vehavei
shamda al talmidei RA", which has been argued is about shemad,
and thus Roman oppression. I know this is debated, but I don't recall
the other interpretation.

I referred to that too. R Sherira does not say which shmad. There was a lesser discussed period of perscution from 115-117 just before the beginning of Hadrian's reign, milchemes kitos, I wonder if the reference is to that. Either way, it doesn't change the multiple problems I identified with dating the death of R Akiva's students to the BK revolt. Again, I note that no one tries to date their death until the 20th century as far as I'm aware.


________________________________
From: Micha Berger <micha at aishdas.org>
Sent: 10 May 2026 17:14
To: The Avodah Torah Discussion Group <avodah at lists.aishdas.org>
Cc: Ben Bradley <bdbradley70 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Avodah] ALL 24000 died

On Sat, May 09, 2026 at 08:32:21PM +0000, Ben Bradley via Avodah wrote:
> Next, we can be sure that R Akiva died around the end or slightly
> after the end of the Bar kochba revolt based of Chazal's reporting of
> the circumstances around his death.

Hadrian speant a lot of time suppressing us after the fall of
Beitar. The plowing of the Har haBayis didn't happen at the same time
as BK's Temple building project.

So, maybe it was later. I don't see this argument compelling.

> So, with all respect to R Henkin...
has been argued is about shemad,
and thus Roman oppression. I know this is debated, but I don't recall
the other interpretation.

There are earlier sources:

R Sherira Gaon in the She'iltos
<http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14593&pgnum=89> says "vehavei
shamda al talmidei RA", which
In the new Moznayim edition of Midrash Rabba, the Eitz Yoseif (on
Bereishis 61) says they died between Pesach and Shavuos in Milchemes
Beitar. That's early 19th cent, but most (not all) of EY is a
liqut.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

--
Micha Berger                 Today is the 38th day, which is
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   5 weeks and 3 days in/toward the omer.
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