[Avodah] tachanun/chatan

[Micha Berger]

On Wed, Oct 22, 2025 at 09:16:29AM -0400, Akiva Miller via Avodah wrote:
> R' Joel Rich asked:
>> S"A O"C 131:4 states "nahagu shelo lipol al pneichem... bbeit
>> hachatan." Does nahagu imply amcha did this and the rabbis didn't
>> resist?

> Isn't that how ALL minhagim get started?

> In fact, my understanding is that the main difference between minhagim and
> d'rabanans is that if it starts with amcha and the rabbis don't object,
> that's a proper minhag. (As opposed to many examples of minhag shtus, which
> the rabbis fought against, with varying degrees of success.) ...

I would divide it three ways:

A minhag starts with amkha and the rabbis find a meaning in it. Like the
Rama or other explanations for eating milchig on Shavuos.

A practice they don't object to but haven't found a way to make religiously
meaningful is fashion. No reason to ban it, but no obligation to keep it going
either. The term in gemara in minhag kalah, but in Judeo-English I don't
think we would dip out of English for the word "minhag". In Hebew and
Aramaic, the technical term "minhag" *is* the simplest term for what
is popular and fashionable.

A practice that defies halakhah, and likely "just" halachically off,
is a minhag shetus. And that's when the rabbis will object.


On Wed, Oct 22, 2025 at 08:33:15PM -0400, Michael Poppers via Avodah wrote:
> In Avodah V43n63, RJIR asked, "...why the focus on bet hachatan (like bet
> haavel) and not just in his presence? Is there a higher degree of joy there?"
> As can be seen from BT Sukah 25b
> <https://www.dafyomi.org/index.php?masechta=succah&daf=25b>, it's not just
> about the chasan -- it's about him and the kalla being together under
> the chuppa; and NB how Tos'fos (d'ham' "ein simcha ela b'chuppa")
> stress the chuppa aspect and how the g'mara dismisses sukka as
> equivalent to being under that chuppa (basically because the chasan
> cannot interact w/ his kalla in the same manner should the simcha be
> moved to a sukka).

Revering to RJR's parenthetic remark and how it impacts RMP's response:
The neshamah of the meis hangs around the beis ha'avel. So there is
something special to that space too.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 When memories exceed dreams,
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   The end is near.
Author: Widen Your Tent                      - Rav Moshe Sherer
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 Live as if you were living already for the
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   second time and as if you had acted the first
Author: Widen Your Tent      time as wrongly as you are about to act now!
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF          - Victor Frankl, Man's search for Meaning